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>
>Now, I agree that new divers (and old ones) must know how to lay line, and
>I will also agree that among a few instructors it seems to be becoming a
>lost art. However, because a diver needs training is a poor excuse to cut
>back a safety tool to a less than usefull position.

It is not the cutting back of lines to allow the training of divers we are 
referring to, it is moving the lines forward due to a lack of 
training.  "The students are having a hard time learning to run the reels 
for such distances, so lets move the lines forward so they don't have to 
work so hard" mentality that is the problem.


>While we're arguing about lines- lets talk about the whole jump thing. Bad
>business.

Again fault of the instructional side and the "powers that be" of cave 
diving that currently hold office.  Jumps and gaps are 90% bullshit, if the 
passage is worth looking at then there should be a well marked T, if the 
passage sucks, sidemount, etc., then maybe a jump is appropriate.  If the T 
is marked and you verify it then there is really no need, personal comfort 
withstanding, to drop a marker on it.  Now if you have never been there 
that is a different story.  Well marked T's are the only way it should be.

>  The majority of the line laid in Jackson blue should be used as
>an example of great line management- no jumps, just WELL MARKED T's.

Actually we changed that slightly when we ran gold line beyond the banana 
room.  We left Ts to decent passages and cut back the rest.  There are too 
many lines in JB that go to basically the same place.

>I have yet to hear a good explanation for T's beyond poor skills.

I believe you mean gaps instead of T's.

>  If a person gets lost in somewhere marked like JB, they are too far too 
> fast, and its their
>own and their instructors fault.

Their fault, but not necessarily their instructors fault.  Instructors can 
not be held liable for what students do after the student leaves, IF THE 
STUDENT WAS TAUGHT CORRECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If the instructor 
violates standards say by drinking beer while teaching, teaching intro 
students to run jumps and gaps, telling intro students to go ahead and 
violate their air management for doubles since they will when they get out 
of class, then yes the instructor should be held liable for that students 
death.
Scott Hunsucker

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