Rob-

Time and time again you see new guys packing reels too full and making 
charlotte's web look like the cartoon it is and its partially due to this 
crap of long cutbacks and improper training (yes reel management and how 
much line is ok to put on a reel or spool should be part of your course). 
 Did you dive Ginnie when the flood was on and there were 12 lines in the 
eye (that was probably my scariest dive watching the spaghetti flap in the 
current and realizing I'd left my IANTB line strainer in my car while 
watching sallot look worse than if he had entered a WWW smackdown match 
with Spiderman).


  >  I am in full agreement with what Hunsucker said.  There are some
instructors out there that aren't worth shit.  It is when they teach the
IANTD or TDI course vs the CDS or NACD.

Second statement above add caveat that those that teach those courses in 
first place are idiots not just when they switch hats.

>Someone slips through the cracks.

No actually they were pushed through the crack (you would almost think that 
there was a premium for body recoveries on today) like the recent tale of 
the guy who didn't have to do the 'lights out' drill because visibility in 
peacock was "the worst it ever gets, so you essentially did a lights out 
drill"  huh?



Lance
"champion for the ethical treatment of line reels and spools everywhere"



    I am in full agreement with what Hunsucker said.  There are some
instructors out there that aren't worth shit.  It is when they teach the
IANTD or TDI course vs the CDS or NACD.  When I was teaching wreck diving
out West, you would be amazed at the number of times on the boat I would
have divers come up to me and ask when did they start having to learn to 
run
reels in the class.  I can see the same in cave diving, the instructor has
four student, and doesn't take the time to insure they all learn to run the
reel.  Someone slips through the cracks.
    I am also in full agreement that the perminate lines need to start
deeper in the cave, 250' isn't a stretch for me.

    Rob

-----Original Message-----
From:	robsteffen:First robsteffen:Last [SMTP:robsteffen@ea*.ne*]
Sent:	Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:14 PM
To:	Trey; lcarlson@n-*.co*; ScottBonis@ao*.co*; swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*
Cc:	cavers@cavers.com
Subject:	Re: cave lines

George, you don't have Open Water divers in Leon Sinks every weekend.
Granted, if the OW diver is stupid enough to follw that line it, the world
would probably be a lot better off with out him, but they will still swim 
in
looking for that perminate line.  At 250 ', one would hope that they turn
around before then.

    Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>
To: <lcarlson@n-*.co*>; <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>; <swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*>
Cc: <cavers@cavers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: cave lines


> Lance they have killed a few people down there with that cut back
bullshit -
> it is as stupid as it gets. In Leon Sinks I run them to the surface.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lance Carlson [mailto:lcarlson@n-*.co*]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 6:15 PM
> To: 'ScottBonis@ao*.co*'; swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*
> Cc: cavers@cavers.com
> Subject: RE: cave lines
>
>
> However,
>
> I've often wondered why it is that the lines in mexico are cut back so
deep
> (some in excess of a full primary reel).  Can you explain the value of
this
> other than keeping guides employed down there?  Make it known that I have
> no qualms about running reel up to say 250' in or so but beyond that I
> question motive?  Observation: Florida, lines too near entrance (read, 
put
> LR back where it belongs).  Mexico, lines too far.  How many people dive
on
> their own in mexico (sans guide) vs in Florida?  I bet you the single 
most
> compelling reason is locating the main line.  By the way, I am aware of
the
> cavern dives there and maybe the answer lies in the fact that some
'cavern'
> dives in Mexico are actually 'Cave' dives and the buck wins again.
>
> Lance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ScottBonis@ao*.co* [SMTP:ScottBonis@ao*.co*]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:33 PM
> To: swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*
> Cc: cavers@cavers.com; John E. Ivanic
> Subject: Re: cave lines
>
> In a message dated 10/18/2000 10:26:48 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> swhac@pc*.gu*.ne* writes:
>
> << ... That line was only moved because the instructors in the community
do
> not want to take the time, and need to pass students that can't, to teach
> people how to run a reel... >>
<SNIP>

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