Scott, as an "engineer" you need to know that the
faceplate is symptomatic - its breaking is telling you
that the main bullhead probably cracked and will be
leaking hydrogen into the motor compartment - wake the
fuck up, Mako does not intend these vehicles to be
misused or altered.

Saying something this fucking stupid and then saying
you are en engineer makes me think you are not Scott
Bonis, you are Scott Bonehead who listens to the
MORONS in the cave diving community way too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: ScottBonis@ao*.co* <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>
To: odyssey@at*.mi*.co*
<odyssey@at*.mi*.co*>; js_landon@ho*.co*
<js_landon@ho*.co*>; trey@ne*.co*
<trey@ne*.co*>; skipmac@co*.co*
<skipmac@co*.co*>; techdiver@aq*.co*
<techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
<cavers@cavers.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Scooter battery connections


>Hi JT, Scott, Trey, and Skip,
>
>Thanks for giving me your opinions.  The information
you conveyed was not
>what I wanted to hear, but I regard it highly.  I may
not be the sharpest
>knife in the drawer, but I'm really not stupid
either.  And I think I can
>hear what you are trying to say.   It's a little like
my wife, Karen, saying
>to me "Don't tell me you forgot to roll up the car
windows before the rain
>storm," my answering "I forgot" and her saying "I
told you not to tell me
>that."
>
>I thought I had a good idea, so I followed up on it a
little bit and it
>seemed like it might work.  But before I got too far,
I figured I ought to
>get some opinions on the practicality of the idea
from some folks who knew a
>hell of a lot more about scootering in caves than I
do.  So I put out a
>message on these lists.
>
>Strangely enough, the answers I received reminded me
of a short poem I
>learned over forty years ago when I was taking
Driver's Ed. in high school.
>
>Here lies the body of Jonathan Gray,
>who died while defending the right of way.
>He was right, dead right as he sped along,
>but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.
>
>I asked for opinions from the list to avoid exactly
the kind of mistake that
>can lead to "Big trouble in little China."  That's
why we're having this
>discussion.  As an engineer, I have no qualms about
being able to modify the
>face plate of a Mako to accomplish my objectives.
>
>But this discussion is not purely about technical
specifications.  It is
>about the experience that has kept people alive in
far more demanding
>situations than the one in which I will be
participating.  5,000 feet back in
>a cave at a 75 foot depth may be a serious situation
to me, but it is not
>nearly as extreme as the WKPP dives.  So I would be a
fool not to STFD, STFU
>and listen.  I'm not trying to prove anything here,
just trying to get my
>head screwed on right.
>
>To JT,
>I accept your concern.  Unfortunately getting one
Gavin would do me little
>good as I also need one for my buddy.  And not having
a sponsor, an extra
>$6,000 to $7,000 does not seem to be in my budget at
this time.  So I guess
>I'll need to find another way of handling the
situation.
>
>To Scott Landon,
>I can really hear your concern.  "Wha you oow yaw
m_i_i_i_nd?"  is a pretty
>strong statement when it comes from someone with the
experience to back it up.
>
>To George,
>I remember our conversation about scootering
protocol, which I appreciated
>greatly.  But as I recall, we talked mainly about
where and how many stage
>tanks needed to be staged, rather than battery life
capacity or modifying
>Makos.  I have a stage tank plan based on that
conversation.  And obviously I
>don't think I'm stretching things too far to say that
it seems you agree with
>Landon's comment.
>
>To Skip,
>Your comments were by far the most poignant.  You
make your points in a
>concise and extremely powerful manner.  I can see
that you are obviously
>right.
>
>Finally, to all of you,
>Thank you sincerely for your caring.  I certainly do
not have a death wish
>and have no intention of letting my ignorance or my
ego drive me into an
>unacceptably dangerous situation.  On these lists in
the last few weeks, we
>have clearly seen what can happen when a diver, even
an expert diver, refuses
>to listen to the wisdom and insight that is available
here.  That is what I
>call just plain dumb.  And I ain't that dumb.
>
>I guess this Idea will get put back on the shelf
along with the other
>engineering ideas (such as gas switching blocks with
"convenient" handles,
>high pressure hose manifolds and double handle tank
valves) which may work
>technically, but are not smart.  And right now I am
starting work on an
>alternate "Plan B."  In this case, these lists may
just have accomplished one
>of their objectives in helping to prevent what could
easily have been a
>rather serious accident.
>
>Thank you all,        Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 8/12/00 2:00:13 PM,
odyssey@at*.mi*.co* writes:
><< Scott,
>Do  yourself a favor and start using a better
scooter.  Remember your life
>may depend on your scooter's ability to get you out.
The way I see it,
>your already pushing beyond the safety limits of your
scooter.  You have
>three choices:
>1:  Get a new Gavin scooter with lots of burn.
(Contact George @
>trey@ne*.co*).  Tow your Mako behind you as a
backup.
>2:  Get a used gavin.  Tow your Mako behind you as a
backup.
>3:  Get another Mako (each diver) and tow one behind
you.  In this case the
>second scooter would not be considered a TRUE backup
since your too far
>into your burn.  A backup should be able to get you
out from max.
>penetration or the next scooter depot with margin.
>Don't compromise what is already a poor and fragile
design of the Mako by
>introducing additional failure points.  Any
additional connections into the
>scooter would be potential leak areas along with the
ridiculous cable
>routing problems, buoyancy problems, fluid drag and
snag points your
>adding.  Just trying to envision what your dreaming
up is making me cringe
>with fear.
>My recommendation is do option 1 and do it right or
not at all. No cave is
>worth dieing for. - JT
>
>At 03:28 PM 8/12/2000 EDT, ScottBonis@ao*.co* wrote:
>>Hi Guys,
>>I'm looking for experience or opinions on an idea
before I take off half
>>cocked and possibly do something dumb.
>>In exploring new a cave, it looks like my buddy and
I may be overreaching
>the
>>limits of the battery capacity of the Mako's we'll
be using.  I'm thinking
>of
>>using a 3/4 inch aluminum plate in the nose of the
scooters so we can drill
>>and tap holes for water tight electrical pass
throughs.  The wires from the
>>motor and the battery would be brought outside the
scooter body and
>connected
>>together with a wet mate connector.
>>This is so when the battery gets too low, I could
hook the batteries from a
>>light canister onto the motor and keep on going.
The motor is set for 24
>>volts and I could easily wire the two batteries in a
waist canister in
>>series.  The Mako batteries are 17 Amp-hours @ 24
volts and each waist
>>canister would be an additional 7 Amp-hours @ 24
volts.
>>Any thoughts?
>>Thanks for your time.  Take care and safe diving,
Scott >>
>
>In a message dated 8/12/00 4:17:23 PM,
js_landon@ho*.co* writes:
><< somebody please tell me that this is a fake. >>
>
>In a message dated 8/12/00 5:08:33 PM,
trey@ne*.co* writes:
><< Landon, Bonis is an example of a smart person who
is
>
>seeing nothing but dumb fuckery out of the morons in
>
>the cave diving community. I already posted the
>
>scooter protocol and had a conversation with him
>
>about it.
>
>Landon, remember we had to add you as a training
>
>director for the WKPP due to the overload on JJ
>
>trying to retrain people from the abject stupidity
>
>taught by the strokes. >>
>
>In a message dated 8/12/00 7:57:28 PM,
skipmac@co*.co* writes:
><< Really bad idea.  Ask the question this way.  I am
going on a mission
>where
>a mistake can kill me.  One of the critical pieces of
equipment (read life
>support equipment) I am using is not good enough so I
want to make a jury
>rigged modification that will add a significant new
failure point.  This
>will allow me to use this critical piece of equipment
even further than
>it's design limits and place me further into a
potentially deadly situation.
>Sorry to sound so dramatic, but others have said that
there is nothing to
>see in a cave worth dying for and I think what you
propose with the Mako is
>raising the risk factor to an unacceptable level.  I
used a Mako for quite
>a while before buying a Gavin (as have a number of
friends) and have found
>that they are prone to leaks already.  Poking holes
in a case that is
>pretty flexible and somewhat fragile is asking for
trouble.
>If you are reaching the limits of the Mako I would
guess you are at least
>4000 back in the cave.  If you flood the Mako are you
carrying enough gas
>to swim out from there or leaving safety tanks to get
you out if the
>scooter fails?
>This is not what you want to hear, but if you have
reached the limits of
>the Mako then you need to spend the money to get a
better scooter.  Don't
>risk your life because you don't have the money to
buy the right gear for
>the job.
>Safe Diving    Skip >>
>

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