Greggo Zamboni managed to peck out this quasi-coherent post, apparently in
reference to Tyler geting bent:

>"So multiple "sports injuries" are acceptable even if it
>leads to hip bone and joint
>replacement at an early age?"

   Later on, he quotes one of his students (one that survived), or perhaps
came up with this on his own:
 "If you don't want to get hurt, don't get into the water".

  So, what's the deal Greggo?  You're razzing Tyler for getting hurt, then
spewing this philosophical gem?

  "Zambeckian", or "Zambeck Stupid" -- there's a couple of terms I've not
heard for a while.  Looks like they'll be in widespread use again.

	Regards,

	Perry


-----Original Message-----
From: gzambeck1 [mailto:gzambeck1@me*.ne*]
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 12:11 AM
To: Allan Pelstring
Cc: Al Marvelli; cavers@cavers.com; Scott McWilliam; Tech Diver;
Technical Diver Discussion Group
Subject: Liar's Trio



Al I found the comments interesting, I can tell how much
frustration that is by the
amount of noise.
Since your a lawyer, and an ex sergeant.
I once ask a Nam vet did they ever worry about dying.
His response was " NO when your dead it's all over, you
worry about living with an
injury ".

So multiple "sports injuries" are acceptable even if it
leads to hip bone and joint
replacement at an early age?

I have one friend who has had this done and, and his diving
became much more
conservative.

As for my students you haven't followed the other thread
very well.
Most are instructors or divers diving air to 150 to 220 ft.
They don't think much of WKPP or George.
To quote the last one "shit happens I know that divers die."

"If you don't want to get hurt, don't get into the water".

Mike Graczyk who was the store manager of Richard's store.
Brought two more students with him to take trimix classes
with him.

I have another instructor in a class right now who knows
about Richard, and doesn't
care.
I brought the subject up before he signed up for the class
and he doesn't care.
He has been diving air to 170 ft in the St. Lawrence River
for years.
He knows that statically if you dive long enough, you may
become injured or die.
They just look at their own track record and have decided
that they are in charge of
their destiny.

Most of them won't take the time to tell you people.
They read these news groups and can see there is no
discussion going on.

They sit there and read what you people write and can see
the mistakes.
George's
I'm a 60 yr. old, big time cave diver from Detroit and a TDI
Instructor.
They can see all of his mistakes.
I'm not 60 and I don't look it.
If George is from Orlando, I'm from Detroit.
Then he and Bill spent two weeks telling everyone I'm a TDI
instructor.
They call me and tell me about the latest dumb thing that
you people just said on the
net.

Bill Bott
I certified Richard after he was in the box, after running
off to TN.
He then counteracted himself in the next statement by saying
the Richard was
certified
as a TDI trimix diver in the fall of 97.
Richard died in the summer of 98.
Bill then screwed up by bring up the Deep Air plate.
If Richard could dive to 260 ft on AIR and died while diving
on Trimix with an END of
135 ft.
Bill just presented a case for diving on deep air as being
safer.
Especially since Richard had more access to Dramamine on the
Gunilda then on the
Doria.

Then Bill really fell on his face with his body count of 5
or 6.
He was sure of Richard as a TDI trimix diver but could
remember the name of a Lake
Wayzee diver.
That went over really good since they know that I'm not a
TDI Instructor.

Scott McWilliams is another interesting fellow.
We have a picture of all of the members who were at the
dinner table in Rossport
after
the Gunilda dive.
Two members are missing.
We also have a video of Richard being moved from the boat to
the truck that Charlie
drove to Thunder Bay.
There are two other dives voices on the tape and none are
slurred from drinking all
night as Scott states.
There are no towns people in the video, so how did Richard's
moaning wake up half the
towns people.
His voice in not even on the tape.

Al as a lawyer for this group, you must teach them to keep
there story straight.

Have a nice night Al

I'll check back in a few days

greg






Al Marvelli wrote:

> I wonder what's easier to live with, the knowledge your
instructor got bent, or the
> knowledge that your instructor killed a student.
>
> Al Marvelli

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