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From: "Scott Landon" <js_landon@ho*.co*>
To: perry@di*.co*, gzambeck1@me*.ne*, AlanPelstring@ao*.co*
Cc: ajmarve@ba*.ne*, cavers@cavers.com, gunilda@wo*.co*,
     techdiver@aq*.co*, doppler@li*.co*
Subject: RE: Liar's Trio
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 13:53:59 GMT
perry,

zambeck stupid is a level measured by being about 30 I.Q. points below farm 
animal stupid.


>From: "Perry Armor" <perry@di*.co*>
>To: "gzambeck1" <gzambeck1@me*.ne*>,        "Allan Pelstring" 
><AlanPelstring@ao*.co*>
>CC: "Al Marvelli" <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>, <cavers@cavers.com>,        "Scott 
>McWilliam" <gunilda@wo*.co*>,        "Tech Diver" 
><techdiver@aq*.co*>,        "Technical Diver Discussion Group" 
><doppler@li*.co*>
>Subject: RE: Liar's Trio
>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:57:38 -0700
>
>Greggo Zamboni managed to peck out this quasi-coherent post, apparently in
>reference to Tyler geting bent:
>
> >"So multiple "sports injuries" are acceptable even if it
> >leads to hip bone and joint
> >replacement at an early age?"
>
>    Later on, he quotes one of his students (one that survived), or perhaps
>came up with this on his own:
>  "If you don't want to get hurt, don't get into the water".
>
>   So, what's the deal Greggo?  You're razzing Tyler for getting hurt, then
>spewing this philosophical gem?
>
>   "Zambeckian", or "Zambeck Stupid" -- there's a couple of terms I've not
>heard for a while.  Looks like they'll be in widespread use again.
>
>	Regards,
>
>	Perry
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gzambeck1 [mailto:gzambeck1@me*.ne*]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 12:11 AM
>To: Allan Pelstring
>Cc: Al Marvelli; cavers@cavers.com; Scott McWilliam; Tech Diver;
>Technical Diver Discussion Group
>Subject: Liar's Trio
>
>
>
>Al I found the comments interesting, I can tell how much
>frustration that is by the
>amount of noise.
>Since your a lawyer, and an ex sergeant.
>I once ask a Nam vet did they ever worry about dying.
>His response was " NO when your dead it's all over, you
>worry about living with an
>injury ".
>
>So multiple "sports injuries" are acceptable even if it
>leads to hip bone and joint
>replacement at an early age?
>
>I have one friend who has had this done and, and his diving
>became much more
>conservative.
>
>As for my students you haven't followed the other thread
>very well.
>Most are instructors or divers diving air to 150 to 220 ft.
>They don't think much of WKPP or George.
>To quote the last one "shit happens I know that divers die."
>
>"If you don't want to get hurt, don't get into the water".
>
>Mike Graczyk who was the store manager of Richard's store.
>Brought two more students with him to take trimix classes
>with him.
>
>I have another instructor in a class right now who knows
>about Richard, and doesn't
>care.
>I brought the subject up before he signed up for the class
>and he doesn't care.
>He has been diving air to 170 ft in the St. Lawrence River
>for years.
>He knows that statically if you dive long enough, you may
>become injured or die.
>They just look at their own track record and have decided
>that they are in charge of
>their destiny.
>
>Most of them won't take the time to tell you people.
>They read these news groups and can see there is no
>discussion going on.
>
>They sit there and read what you people write and can see
>the mistakes.
>George's
>I'm a 60 yr. old, big time cave diver from Detroit and a TDI
>Instructor.
>They can see all of his mistakes.
>I'm not 60 and I don't look it.
>If George is from Orlando, I'm from Detroit.
>Then he and Bill spent two weeks telling everyone I'm a TDI
>instructor.
>They call me and tell me about the latest dumb thing that
>you people just said on the
>net.
>
>Bill Bott
>I certified Richard after he was in the box, after running
>off to TN.
>He then counteracted himself in the next statement by saying
>the Richard was
>certified
>as a TDI trimix diver in the fall of 97.
>Richard died in the summer of 98.
>Bill then screwed up by bring up the Deep Air plate.
>If Richard could dive to 260 ft on AIR and died while diving
>on Trimix with an END of
>135 ft.
>Bill just presented a case for diving on deep air as being
>safer.
>Especially since Richard had more access to Dramamine on the
>Gunilda then on the
>Doria.
>
>Then Bill really fell on his face with his body count of 5
>or 6.
>He was sure of Richard as a TDI trimix diver but could
>remember the name of a Lake
>Wayzee diver.
>That went over really good since they know that I'm not a
>TDI Instructor.
>
>Scott McWilliams is another interesting fellow.
>We have a picture of all of the members who were at the
>dinner table in Rossport
>after
>the Gunilda dive.
>Two members are missing.
>We also have a video of Richard being moved from the boat to
>the truck that Charlie
>drove to Thunder Bay.
>There are two other dives voices on the tape and none are
>slurred from drinking all
>night as Scott states.
>There are no towns people in the video, so how did Richard's
>moaning wake up half the
>towns people.
>His voice in not even on the tape.
>
>Al as a lawyer for this group, you must teach them to keep
>there story straight.
>
>Have a nice night Al
>
>I'll check back in a few days
>
>greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Al Marvelli wrote:
>
> > I wonder what's easier to live with, the knowledge your
>instructor got bent, or the
> > knowledge that your instructor killed a student.
> >
> > Al Marvelli
>
>

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