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From: <jrivers@ta*.rr*.co*>
To: trey@ne*.co*, cavers@cavers.com
Subject: Re: Who is this guy?
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:40:50 US/Eastern
I think you need to read the police report on this, you have been misinformed.

I have no obsession with the klan with you or your following...

Enjoy your day.............









> You really are an idiot. Barry stored Rhodamine Dye belonging to the DEP
> at his house. The WKPP does not even do dye tracing - we have other
> methods. After he moved to High Springs, and investigation of the cable
> company he worked for found that dye and made an issue of it, as well as
> the fact that somebody had dumped other trash on that property.
> 
> Not my problem - talk to the DEP. Clearly, you are obsessed with the
> WKPP. Why is that? Because you are a loser, and an expert at worrying
> about the winners.
> 
> The WKPP does not do dye traces for the DEP ( or anyone else ) - this is
> not a WKPP issue. By the way , the dye had been stored at Wakulla
> Springs State Park and was used by the Wakulla Project - go cry to them.
> 
> You really are reaching , big time. Fact is you can not win with us
> because you are wrong, and part of the problem out there.
> 
> Idiots like you always amuse me - you have a speck of information and a
> wad of misinformation, like a dumb goober would, and you misapply it
> thinking you are some big time hero. There is nothing about any of us
> that is not public knowledge, and nobody cares. At the end of the day we
> are still where the action is, we still carve the path, set the
> standards, breach the limits, develop the new gear and methods, and we
> still are the leading edge of the game - you are not jack shit, pal,
> other than a whining loser who posts from a fake name doing the bidding
> of the other disenfranchised losers out there who can not step up to the
> plate and tell us why we are so wrong an you all are so right.
>  
> jrivers@ta*.rr*.co* wrote:
> > 
> > Since you stated keep an eye on your boys maybe you can tell me how your 
group
> > stand regarding the environment. Considering your klan's lights and scooter
> > maker was arrested after dumping illegal toxic waste, I believe it was
> > batteries at a land fill......The hearing can only be postponed so many
> > times....
> > 
> > Gee I would move out of Wakulla County also, If I got busted.
> > 
> > > "Rivers" - I could care less what you do or who you are. As I suspected,
> > > you have no clue what you are talking about and are a huge lying windbag
> > > to boot. You don't "piss me off", you are an obvious screwball with
> > > nothing to say. The more you slobber on here with insane ravings, the
> > > better you make the case that jealosy and misinformed twisted bullshit
> > > are the only objections to anything we do or say. Your personal "intenet
> > > startup" claims are a joke - you are too much of an proven ignoramus for
> > > anyone to believe you or ever take you seriously, and even if you were
> > > lucky enough to have any money, nobody here cares, nobody is counting,
> > > and your hypocrisy in this self aggrandizement is typical of the
> > > "community" type that you are.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the complements about my blond hair and blue eyes and
> > > body fat and such, but that is not my doing other than in the working
> > > out which anyone can drag their lazy ass out and do  - A Deus Gloria, (
> > > before you said I was ugly, but I guess that was inbetween psycotic
> > > epsisodes ). How do you explain the diversity of the WKPP , and the fact
> > > that many dive shops sell gear made by EE and Halcyon, which I have
> > > nothing to do with, and that everyone who really wants to learn the real
> > > deal in diving is now going to GUE, which I also have NOTHING to do
> > > with? Why is a big time money man like you so worried about the price of
> > > dive gear that you do not even buy or know how to use?  "Jim", has
> > > anyone bothered to sit down and expain to you the word "bullshit"? The
> > > fact is that we went to manufacturers and asked them to make the gear we
> > > formerly had custom made, and Halcyon and EE did so. You can take it or
> > > leave it - we don't care, but quit crying about it.
> > >
> > > How do you explain that the example we set is "bad", and how can you
> > > tell me that the discipline I require to dive the sites we dive is
> > > "bad", and how can you tell me that any of this is "bad" since it is
> > > quite clear by the steady stream of fatality reports that something
> > > needs to be improved?
> > >
> > > The fact is the none of us have any interest in dealing with you or any
> > > other babbling mental case, hardened stroke or other form of bullshit.
> > > We are interested in reaching those who do not want to have to deal with
> > > the likes of you and your champions, and that is what is happening. The
> > > bullshit or rubber room squad is your only hope. We offer an altenative
> > > to those who want it, not those who necessarily need it, and I am afriad
> > > we have nothing for you.
> > >
> > > You keep an eye on my boys out there and let me know if they are doing
> > > anything I don't like - just email me the names and violations and I
> > > will credit your stupid ass with the bust. This should keep you busy,
> > > Rainman, for quite a while. Let me also suggest a nice antipsycotic with
> > > your monring meal, "Jim". As an aside, you know the funny thing about
> > > you as a fake is that you could be SO many of the sad sacks out there in
> > > the cave community" - you represent them all quite well.
> > >
> > > jrivers@ta*.rr*.co* wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I never claimed to have your track record. I never claimed to go as deep
> > and as
> > > > far as you. I never claimed to do anything for cave diving, though you 
call
> > it
> > > > a sport, I guess fox hunting, and big white van smash up derby is to 
you as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > > > And what the fuck do you know about venture capital. You small time junk
> > bond
> > > > broker. I have invested more in one internet startup than you will make 
in
> > your
> > > > lifetime.
> > > >
> > > > You are correct my resume does not exemplify the qualifications of any
> > member
> > > > of your team. I have never stated it does.
> > > >
> > > > But I do not want to be a member of your team.
> > > >
> > > > I am certain your holy water in Tally is the most pristine cave systems 
in
> > the
> > > > world......... So leave the rest of the shitholes alone. Not everyone 
wants
> > to
> > > > dive holy water....not everyone wants to go where the best have been.
> > > >
> > > > I am certain if you were "World Water Dictator", the only people in any 
cave
> > > > system would be divers that do it your way, divers that have .000004 % 
body
> > > > fat, divers you rip off with your equipment 1000% markup sales, divers 
that
> > buy
> > > > gear from your klan's shops. Yes we all know the statistics, your divers
> > would
> > > > be number one with no fatalitites, a perfect safety record, and trophies
> > > > galore................................well wake up asshole.......how 
long
> > have
> > > > you been preaching all this, how many years, think about it, this isn't
> > > > Microsoft, your perfect race of blue eyed blond haired divers are a rare
> > breed
> > > > and always will be, and yes you may have the best, but they will not be 
the
> > > > only ones, remember "DICK"TATORship won't work here fuckhead.
> > > >
> > > > I have no need to show you how it is done, and never claimed I have the
> > ability
> > > > to do so, and yes you can show me how it is done, I have never disagreed
> > that
> > > > you don't know your shit. But I choose not let "you" do that. I have 
never
> > > > stated your methods of diving are wrong. However whenever you feel
> > threatened
> > > > you attack people on this list, threaten them with lawsuits.
> > > >
> > > > What are you guys a monoply, wipe out all the other certification 
agencies.
> > And
> > > > you say your not in it for the money........bullshit.............
> > > >
> > > > and no, just as you tell the others that piss you off on this
> > list.........."I
> > > > won't go away"....................
> > > >
> > > > > Rivers, who are you to discuss anything with us? Mabye you can get out
> > > > > your logbook, track record, contribution to the sport as well as show 
us
> > > > > what you have done for anyone lately and compare that to mine? Maybe 
you
> > > > > would like to come on up to Tallahasse and show me how it is done? 
Maybe
> > > > > you are just one more piece of "cave community" bullshit.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not concerned with what my guys do off site other than that they
> > > > > are an embarassment to the team, and when they are, I am the first to
> > > > > point it out to everyone publicly, and when they then get killed being
> > > > > assholes and idiots, I am the first to point that out.They can be 
powers
> > > > > of example either way - I do not care. At our sites they will do it by
> > > > > the book . EITHER way they will prove me right.
> > > > >
> > > > >  You need to either step up with some facts agd figures, or STFU. You 
do
> > > > > not have the resume to play with any of us, and your attempts to be a
> > > > > big tougth guy with my support staff are a joke. You just make it 
easier
> > > > > for me make my case about the whole cave diving community with your
> > > > > mindless, misdirected drivel and paranoid slop like "communist party"
> > > > > and "grand dragon" and " control the State's water supply" - the
> > > > > babbling of an true idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > >  You are clearly a mental case as well as a half wit and a liar.
> > > > > "Venture captital"? You are already busted for ignorant stupidity in
> > > > > several posts that say maybe you invested in the local Mango stand. 
All
> > > > > of your turkey feather puffing is bullshit and the whole list can see
> > > > > it. There have been so many of "you" over the years on here who think
> > > > > they have the high ground with us - you do not - we have the TR - that
> > > > > is track record - something you will never have.
> > > > >
> > > > >  You obviously have zero understanding of anything to do with diving 
or
> > > > > the kind of diving that we do. ZERO - you have never done it and you
> > > > > will never do it. You "think" you have a leg to stand on because you 
are
> > > > > probably friends with one of the do nothing big talkers who like to
> > > > > badmouth us, but I will invite you or any of them to tell me in my
> > > > > "communist" plan where any of your stupidity should come into play?
> > > > > Maybe you can tell me at what point in a dive like the kind I do that 
I
> > > > > should start listening to a fuckup like you or any of your mentors? 
How
> > > > > may feet into the cave should I start seeking the advice of a never 
been
> > > > > like you or whomever pulls your strings but does not have the balls to
> > > > > come out and tell me directly whey they are right and I am wrong??  
You
> > > > > just let me know , "Rivers", and then tell me how it is done, and 
while
> > > > > you are at it, tell any of us what you have EVER done. Nothing is the
> > > > > answer, as you are a nobody from nowhere with nothing but bullshit to
> > > > > say, like the whoel "community".
> > > > >
> > > > > We keep doing and doing, you all keep yapping and complaining - get 
out
> > > > > here and show me how it is done. You have no answers, in fact you have
> > > > > nothing and never will.
> > > > >
> > > > > jrivers@ta*.rr*.co* wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do you idiots keep insisting I am a fake. I believe timing is 
of the
> > > > > > essence. I do not have any issues with anyone in particular, I have
> > issues
> > > > with
> > > > > > people that preach, preach, preach and have a following that 
listens to
> > > > those
> > > > > > all mighty words and when the master DIR philospher goes on hiatus 
the
> > rest
> > > > of
> > > > > > the klan decides to perform the unethical methods that the grand 
dragon
> > was
> > > > > > preaching against.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How many of the klan members can honestly state they don't do this. 
I
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > > to those so called "shitholes" that is frequented by them and
> > unfortunately
> > > > > > most of the time it is not "them" in the cave, it is "them" the
> > individual
> > > > on
> > > > > > their solo dive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know who the players are out there. But you can only ride your 
high
> > horse
> > > > for
> > > > > > so long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I thought JD Hill was some washed up country 
singer................
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone from Tampa know who this "jrivers@ta*.rr*.co*" is?
> > > > > > Obviously he is a phoney, but which one of the disgruntled is it? In
> > > > > > looking back at his pack of lies about himself , his glaring
> > > > > > inconsistencies, his large knowledge gaps, and his dementia with 
regard
> > > > > > to many of the players out there, it appears that what we have is a 
real
> > > > > > loser who is actually either one of the regulars or is a student of 
one
> > > > > > of the regulars.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to see this guy either fess up or go ahead and continue to 
be a
> > > > > > fraud, but at least entertain us with why he is qualified to 
comment on
> > > > > > ANYTHING in cave diving, and perhaps give us a a glimpse of his all
> > > > > > encompassing knowledge of the sport that can help us all learn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone have a clue here? Obviously this clown will not be answering 
this
> > > > > > - he has nothing to back him up, but maybe one of you know who he 
really
> > > > > > is and what his real problem is. Did he get outcast by 
the "Communist
> > > > > > Party" or what? He is clearly obsessed with these people and Mike 
Bruic.
> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> 




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