Dude, cave diving is supposed to be fun.

At 04:52 AM 5/16/2000 -0500, Jeff Disler wrote:
>Greetings Jim, et al,
>
>Many will probably suggest I'm a wrong thinker, but I wish they had made a
>few of these.
>Perhaps if people could open their minds as to the positive options this
>manifold would offer rather than assuming the extra knob would just make a
>cluster of every dive then they too might see, with certain logistical
>consideratins in mind, it has its advantages.
>
>First let me say that there would be little to no need for this manifold
>for ocean or spring type diving. In these situations doubles banded
>together are easily carried, on the boat off the boat, as well as to and
>from the water. The standard manifold is ideal for these applications.
>
>Where the standard manifold is not ideal is in caves that have difficult
>logistics where hauling pumped, banded, manifolded, tanks is not an option,
>then this manifold would solve several problems.
>
>Caves that contain obstacals such as low tight air filled passages, where
>dive gear must be packed to keep it mud free, then pushed, pulled and
>otherwise moved beyond.
>Vertical shafts that have to rappeled or climbed, where the dive gear has
>to be lowered or lifted.
>Exposed ledges that must be traversed or abseiled with dive gear suspended
>by tyrolean and/or belayed, so as to not have a tank go careening down a
>canyon.
>
>Caves with these logistical nightmares have to be dived with less than
>desirable equipment configurations for exploration to continue.
>Personaly I like diving sidemounts but as far as gas managment, they are
>not as safe as a manifold for long penetrations.
>Likewise, independent backmounts, I use them in conjuction with sidemounts
>for long penetrations because I have no effective way to manifold tanks
>together once I have reached the sump.
>Assuming the sump/s that exist beyond above obstacals have enough floor to
>ceiling space, such a manifold would offer positive and true advantages. It
>would allow better gas managment over either sidemount or independent back
>mounts and allow the tanks to be split up to be carried in smaller packages
>throughout the majority of caves I seem to end up in.
>Of course, the idea of that extra knob might seem like trouble, it would
>still allow better gas managment in the above cases.
>
>While the operation and failure modes of the standard manifold are well
>known. The worse thing that I can see that could happen (never heard of it
>happening catastrophically) to the standard manifold is if the Isolator is
>compromised in a place where all gas is lost. Of course this is actually in
>the catagory of a non problem.
>I'm certain this is where many are having a problem with this new manifold
>concept. Perhaps they see it as someone trying to fix a non-problem
>therefore, ill conceived.
>I suggest it was an attempt to add safety while solving logistical
>problems, rather than an attempt to replace the three knob manifold.
>
>A question for any who care to share an opinion.
>
>If you wished to do a dive with the following gear configurations, list
>which you would choose, best to less best.
>Consider that transporting manifolded doubles to the dive site was impossible.
>
>A. New manifold with 4 knobs
>
>B. Sidemount
>
>C. Independent back mounts
>
>D. Would refuse to dive if could not use standard manifold.
>
>
>Regards JD
>
>
>At 09:19 AM 05/15/2000 -0400, Jim Cobb wrote:
> >Dell, not to mention the inevitable clusterfucks which would result from
> >such an arrangement. The training and retraining issues would be be a
> >nightmare. IMHO, you should have laughed this "concept" right out of your
> >office, much less let it get in print associated with the DR name.
> >
> >I have another question for you. Why on earth would someone need a He
> >analyzer? O2 yes of course but He? If you have a mystery tank I would not
> >would trust it's contents from either a 02 or He analyzer, you drain the
> >bitch and start over. It simply is not worth your life for a few bucks of 02
> >or helium, and the table changes for various %'s of He are insignificant,
> >certainly not worth the cost of such equipment.
> >
> >I'm no Dive God, but this stuff looks pretty obvious to me.
> >
> >I applaud yours and DR's attempts at being innovative, but to the tech
> >community stuff like that manifold and an He analyzer, plus your attempts to
> >reinvent bungee wings, just make you look silly. Thank goodness for OMS to
> >make you guys look good, eh?
> >
> >Regards-
> >
> >   Jim
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >
> >> From: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
> >> Reply-To: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
> >> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:25:35 -0400
> >> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>, <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>
> >> Hello Jim,
> >> This valve was a conceptual design. It was designed more for true
>"modular",
> >> reason being that it could be assembled or taken apart without 
> draining the
> >> cylinders. Two "Y" cylinders could be assembled into doubles by simply
> >> installing the center piece at any time.
> >> Both orifices on each valve were 300 bar DIN, as were both ends of the
> >> crossbar. You simply shut that valve orifice down in-order to remove the
> >> crossbar or isolate the cylinders in case of failure.
> >> It did go in our catalog, but I seriously doubt you will ever see it from
> >> us.  It was too costly in comparison to our stand alone dedicated 
> manifold,
> >> which is widely accepted. I doubt the limited demand for such a new and
> >> unconventional design would have been worth it.
> >> Dell Motes
> >> Dive Rite
> >> 117 W.Washington St.
> >> Lake City, Florida 32055
> >> www.dive-rite.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> To: trey@ne*.co* <trey@ne*.co*>; Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> >> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
> >> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
> >> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>; techdiver@aq*.co*
> >> <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:24 AM
> >> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hey, Dell, is it DR or OMS that came up with that manifold with 4 knobs?
> >> You
> >>> know, 2 on each valve and none on the cross tube. If it was DR, are you
> >>> serious about this product? Or was this some kind of joke?
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>>
> >>>> From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)
> >>>> Reply-To: trey@ne*.co*
> >>>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:36:34 -0400
> >>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> >>>> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>, paul.r.harris@te*.ne*,
> >> "'Chris
> >>>> Elmore'" <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>, cmilz@Mi*.ED*, techdiver@aq*.co*,
> >>>> cavers@cavers.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>
> >>>> Dell, you guys should cater to swimmers - that is about the level one
> >>>> needs to be at to by some of your crap - totally obvlivious.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dell Motes wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hardly pissed Mike, I answered your question the first time.
> >>>>> All parts are based on margins to support our dealers and international
> >>>>> distributors. Thats called business. Thats why we have the widely 
> (world
> >>>>> wide) established, long lasting network. I don't care if you lack the
> >>>>> intellect to understand that, and you can try to twist it up 
> however you
> >>>>> please.
> >>>>> Besides, what do you care? I thought you were catering to swimmers and
> >> not
> >>>>> divers?
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> >>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
> >>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
> >>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
> >>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:57 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ah..... little dell is all pissed and pouty because he can't 
> answer the
> >>>>>> question, maybe you should go check with your daddy (lamar).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bruic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> >>>>>> To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>;
> >>>>> 'Chris
> >>>>>> Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:57 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now I'm a moron ?
> >>>>>>> Your a real class act, Bruic.
> >>>>>>> You need to go back to scamming college girls into your porn
> >> "calendar".
> >>>>>>> Yep, a real class guy.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> >>>>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
> >>>>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
> >>>>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; 
> cavers@cavers.com
> >>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:32 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yea, that is correct, she charged a dollar more for the precision
> >> bore
> >>>>>>>> glass, now were at $4.00 a tube. "Optically correct"??? What kind of
> >>>>> bull
> >>>>>>>> shit is this, I don't use them to read with you moron, and it 
> sure as
> >>>>>> hell
> >>>>>>>> doesn't justify the price reaming your giving your customers on 
> this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bruic
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> >>>>>>>> To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; 
> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>;
> >>>>>>> 'Chris
> >>>>>>>> Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:18 AM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Sure Mike, the ones you showed us were not precision bore glass,
> >> flame
> >>>>>>>>> polished or optically correct. They didn't meet our specs.
> >>>>>>>>> You get what you pay for.
> >>>>>>>>> ta,ta
> >>>>>>>>> Dell Motes
> >>>>>>>>> Dive Rite
> >>>>>>>>> 117 W.Washington St.
> >>>>>>>>> Lake City, Florida 32055
> >>>>>>>>> www.dive-rite.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> >>>>>>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
> >>>>>>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
> >>>>>>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>;
> >> cavers@cavers.com
> >>>>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:16 PM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dell, can you please explain to "all" members of this list why a
> >> test
> >>>>>>>> tube
> >>>>>>>>>> from Dive Right cost around $30.00, when I showed you guys 
> where to
> >>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>> them
> >>>>>>>>>> custom made for less than $3.00 ea.  That's one hell of a mark-up
> >> if
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> ask
> >>>>>>>>>> me.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bruic
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' 
> <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
> >>>>>>>>>> <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:57 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Depending on the test tube light design, there are a few ways to
> >>>>>>>> prevent
> >>>>>>>>>>> lens loss.
> >>>>>>>>>>> First, don't lubricate the o-rings, simply wet them (very 
> lightly)
> >>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>> installing the lens. Lubrication makes them way too easy to pop
> >> off
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>> hot, the pressure pushes them right of the end. The slight
> >> moisture
> >>>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>>> dry
> >>>>>>>>>>> quickly and never be seen again.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Relieving the pressure while pressing the lens in place can be
> >> done
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> couple of ways. If it has an easily loosened compression type
> >>>>>> sealing
> >>>>>>>>>> gland
> >>>>>>>>>>> on the cord, just back off the nut (not the gland itself, use two
> >>>>>>>>>> wrenches)
> >>>>>>>>>>> and wiggle the cord. This will allow air to escape out around the
> >>>>>> cord
> >>>>>>>>>> while
> >>>>>>>>>>> the lens is being pushed on. Once the lens is in place, 
> re-tighten
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> nut
> >>>>>>>>>>> on the gland. If the gland is not accessible, (or easily
> >> loosened),
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>> "vacuum seal" the lens in place. Place the head on a flat surface
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> push
> >>>>>>>>>>> the lens on till it loosely touches the first o-ring. Now 
> turn the
> >>>>>>>> light
> >>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>> for a few minutes. This will heat the lens and the head at the
> >> same
> >>>>>>>> time.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Once it is nice and warm, turn the light off and grasp the lens
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> towel
> >>>>>>>>>>> (or something of that nature) and push the lens in place. 
> Once the
> >>>>>>>> whole
> >>>>>>>>>>> assembly cools, it will be in a vacuum state. Naturally, the head
> >>>>>>>>> material
> >>>>>>>>>>> needs to be such that it can be burned for a short time out 
> of the
> >>>>>>>> water
> >>>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>> this "vacuum" method.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Aluminum and Delrin will have no problems with this. PVC or 
> others
> >>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> highly suspect.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Any high quality glass lens will have no problems either. The
> >>>>>> o-rings
> >>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>> stand alot of heat as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You should always pull a test tube style out of it's reflector
> >>>>>> before
> >>>>>>>>>> using,
> >>>>>>>>>>> just to check the seals. The lens can be hit in such a way 
> that it
> >>>>>>>> cracks
> >>>>>>>>>>> the lens at the base, (where the o-rings are), but still appears
> >> to
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>> fine while still in the reflector because this area is hidden 
> from
> >>>>>>>> view.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dell Motes
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dive Rite
> >>>>>>>>>>> 117 W.Washington St.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lake City, Florida 32055
> >>>>>>>>>>> www.dive-rite.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Paul Harris <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; cmilz@Mi*.ED*
> >>>>>>>>> <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>;
> >>>>>> cavers@cavers.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:07 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: AUL canister light / light cord
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about this as a solution.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Some friends and I were discussing non-wicking wire.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My (humble) opinion is that you need some way of transfering
> >>>>>>>>>>>> air from the light head when you push the test tube on otherwise
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the positive pressure will push it off.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed that it is much easier to remove or replace the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> test tube when the lid is off the cannister.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> r
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Claudia,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When I replaced my electrical cord I peeled the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> insulation back from both ends (after cutting it to the right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> length), put a wad of aquaseal around the wires, then pulled
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the insulation back up. This will keep any water from getting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> through a nick in the insulation and into the canister which
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> may be what's happening to yours.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >>>>>>>> `techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >>>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >


----------------------------------
  Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*>

  NW Labor Systems, Inc
  http://www.nwls.com



----------------------------------

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