Greetings Jim, et al,

Many will probably suggest I'm a wrong thinker, but I wish they had made a
few of these. 
Perhaps if people could open their minds as to the positive options this
manifold would offer rather than assuming the extra knob would just make a
cluster of every dive then they too might see, with certain logistical
consideratins in mind, it has its advantages. 

First let me say that there would be little to no need for this manifold
for ocean or spring type diving. In these situations doubles banded
together are easily carried, on the boat off the boat, as well as to and
from the water. The standard manifold is ideal for these applications.

Where the standard manifold is not ideal is in caves that have difficult
logistics where hauling pumped, banded, manifolded, tanks is not an option,
then this manifold would solve several problems.  
 
Caves that contain obstacals such as low tight air filled passages, where
dive gear must be packed to keep it mud free, then pushed, pulled and
otherwise moved beyond.
Vertical shafts that have to rappeled or climbed, where the dive gear has
to be lowered or lifted. 
Exposed ledges that must be traversed or abseiled with dive gear suspended
by tyrolean and/or belayed, so as to not have a tank go careening down a
canyon.

Caves with these logistical nightmares have to be dived with less than
desirable equipment configurations for exploration to continue. 
Personaly I like diving sidemounts but as far as gas managment, they are
not as safe as a manifold for long penetrations.
Likewise, independent backmounts, I use them in conjuction with sidemounts
for long penetrations because I have no effective way to manifold tanks
together once I have reached the sump. 
Assuming the sump/s that exist beyond above obstacals have enough floor to
ceiling space, such a manifold would offer positive and true advantages. It
would allow better gas managment over either sidemount or independent back
mounts and allow the tanks to be split up to be carried in smaller packages
throughout the majority of caves I seem to end up in.
Of course, the idea of that extra knob might seem like trouble, it would
still allow better gas managment in the above cases.

While the operation and failure modes of the standard manifold are well
known. The worse thing that I can see that could happen (never heard of it
happening catastrophically) to the standard manifold is if the Isolator is
compromised in a place where all gas is lost. Of course this is actually in
the catagory of a non problem. 
I'm certain this is where many are having a problem with this new manifold
concept. Perhaps they see it as someone trying to fix a non-problem
therefore, ill conceived.
I suggest it was an attempt to add safety while solving logistical
problems, rather than an attempt to replace the three knob manifold.

A question for any who care to share an opinion.

If you wished to do a dive with the following gear configurations, list
which you would choose, best to less best.
Consider that transporting manifolded doubles to the dive site was impossible.

A. New manifold with 4 knobs 

B. Sidemount

C. Independent back mounts

D. Would refuse to dive if could not use standard manifold.


Regards JD


At 09:19 AM 05/15/2000 -0400, Jim Cobb wrote:
>Dell, not to mention the inevitable clusterfucks which would result from
>such an arrangement. The training and retraining issues would be be a
>nightmare. IMHO, you should have laughed this "concept" right out of your
>office, much less let it get in print associated with the DR name.
>
>I have another question for you. Why on earth would someone need a He
>analyzer? O2 yes of course but He? If you have a mystery tank I would not
>would trust it's contents from either a 02 or He analyzer, you drain the
>bitch and start over. It simply is not worth your life for a few bucks of 02
>or helium, and the table changes for various %'s of He are insignificant,
>certainly not worth the cost of such equipment.
>
>I'm no Dive God, but this stuff looks pretty obvious to me.
>
>I applaud yours and DR's attempts at being innovative, but to the tech
>community stuff like that manifold and an He analyzer, plus your attempts to
>reinvent bungee wings, just make you look silly. Thank goodness for OMS to
>make you guys look good, eh?
>
>Regards-
>
>   Jim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
>> From: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
>> Reply-To: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
>> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:25:35 -0400
>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>, <cavers@cavers.com>
>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>> 
>> Hello Jim,
>> This valve was a conceptual design. It was designed more for true
"modular",
>> reason being that it could be assembled or taken apart without draining the
>> cylinders. Two "Y" cylinders could be assembled into doubles by simply
>> installing the center piece at any time.
>> Both orifices on each valve were 300 bar DIN, as were both ends of the
>> crossbar. You simply shut that valve orifice down in-order to remove the
>> crossbar or isolate the cylinders in case of failure.
>> It did go in our catalog, but I seriously doubt you will ever see it from
>> us.  It was too costly in comparison to our stand alone dedicated manifold,
>> which is widely accepted. I doubt the limited demand for such a new and
>> unconventional design would have been worth it.
>> Dell Motes
>> Dive Rite
>> 117 W.Washington St.
>> Lake City, Florida 32055
>> www.dive-rite.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
>> To: trey@ne*.co* <trey@ne*.co*>; Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>; techdiver@aq*.co*
>> <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
>> Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>> 
>> 
>>> Hey, Dell, is it DR or OMS that came up with that manifold with 4 knobs?
>> You
>>> know, 2 on each valve and none on the cross tube. If it was DR, are you
>>> serious about this product? Or was this some kind of joke?
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>> 
>>>> From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)
>>>> Reply-To: trey@ne*.co*
>>>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:36:34 -0400
>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>>>> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>, paul.r.harris@te*.ne*,
>> "'Chris
>>>> Elmore'" <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>, cmilz@Mi*.ED*, techdiver@aq*.co*,
>>>> cavers@cavers.com
>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>> 
>>>> Dell, you guys should cater to swimmers - that is about the level one
>>>> needs to be at to by some of your crap - totally obvlivious.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dell Motes wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hardly pissed Mike, I answered your question the first time.
>>>>> All parts are based on margins to support our dealers and international
>>>>> distributors. Thats called business. Thats why we have the widely (world
>>>>> wide) established, long lasting network. I don't care if you lack the
>>>>> intellect to understand that, and you can try to twist it up however you
>>>>> please.
>>>>> Besides, what do you care? I thought you were catering to swimmers and
>> not
>>>>> divers?
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
>>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
>>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:57 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ah..... little dell is all pissed and pouty because he can't answer the
>>>>>> question, maybe you should go check with your daddy (lamar).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bruic
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>>>>>> To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>;
>>>>> 'Chris
>>>>>> Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:57 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now I'm a moron ?
>>>>>>> Your a real class act, Bruic.
>>>>>>> You need to go back to scamming college girls into your porn
>> "calendar".
>>>>>>> Yep, a real class guy.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>>>>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
>>>>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
>>>>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
>>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:32 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yea, that is correct, she charged a dollar more for the precision
>> bore
>>>>>>>> glass, now were at $4.00 a tube. "Optically correct"??? What kind of
>>>>> bull
>>>>>>>> shit is this, I don't use them to read with you moron, and it sure as
>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>> doesn't justify the price reaming your giving your customers on this.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bruic
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>>>>>>>> To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>;
>>>>>>> 'Chris
>>>>>>>> Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:18 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sure Mike, the ones you showed us were not precision bore glass,
>> flame
>>>>>>>>> polished or optically correct. They didn't meet our specs.
>>>>>>>>> You get what you pay for.
>>>>>>>>> ta,ta
>>>>>>>>> Dell Motes
>>>>>>>>> Dive Rite
>>>>>>>>> 117 W.Washington St.
>>>>>>>>> Lake City, Florida 32055
>>>>>>>>> www.dive-rite.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>>>>>>>>> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; paul.r.harris@te*.ne*
>>>>>>>>> <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
>>>>>>>>> cmilz@Mi*.ED* <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>;
>> cavers@cavers.com
>>>>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:16 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Dell, can you please explain to "all" members of this list why a
>> test
>>>>>>>> tube
>>>>>>>>>> from Dive Right cost around $30.00, when I showed you guys where to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>> custom made for less than $3.00 ea.  That's one hell of a mark-up
>> if
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bruic
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>; 'Chris Elmore'
<ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>;
>>>>>>>>>> <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aq*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:57 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Depending on the test tube light design, there are a few ways to
>>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>>>>>>> lens loss.
>>>>>>>>>>> First, don't lubricate the o-rings, simply wet them (very lightly)
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> installing the lens. Lubrication makes them way too easy to pop
>> off
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> hot, the pressure pushes them right of the end. The slight
>> moisture
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> dry
>>>>>>>>>>> quickly and never be seen again.
>>>>>>>>>>> Relieving the pressure while pressing the lens in place can be
>> done
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> couple of ways. If it has an easily loosened compression type
>>>>>> sealing
>>>>>>>>>> gland
>>>>>>>>>>> on the cord, just back off the nut (not the gland itself, use two
>>>>>>>>>> wrenches)
>>>>>>>>>>> and wiggle the cord. This will allow air to escape out around the
>>>>>> cord
>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>> the lens is being pushed on. Once the lens is in place, re-tighten
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> nut
>>>>>>>>>>> on the gland. If the gland is not accessible, (or easily
>> loosened),
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> "vacuum seal" the lens in place. Place the head on a flat surface
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>>>>>> the lens on till it loosely touches the first o-ring. Now turn the
>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> for a few minutes. This will heat the lens and the head at the
>> same
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>> Once it is nice and warm, turn the light off and grasp the lens
>>>>> with
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> towel
>>>>>>>>>>> (or something of that nature) and push the lens in place. Once the
>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>>> assembly cools, it will be in a vacuum state. Naturally, the head
>>>>>>>>> material
>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be such that it can be burned for a short time out of the
>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> this "vacuum" method.
>>>>>>>>>>> Aluminum and Delrin will have no problems with this. PVC or others
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> highly suspect.
>>>>>>>>>>> Any high quality glass lens will have no problems either. The
>>>>>> o-rings
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> stand alot of heat as well.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You should always pull a test tube style out of it's reflector
>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> using,
>>>>>>>>>>> just to check the seals. The lens can be hit in such a way that it
>>>>>>>> cracks
>>>>>>>>>>> the lens at the base, (where the o-rings are), but still appears
>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> fine while still in the reflector because this area is hidden from
>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>>>> Dell Motes
>>>>>>>>>>> Dive Rite
>>>>>>>>>>> 117 W.Washington St.
>>>>>>>>>>> Lake City, Florida 32055
>>>>>>>>>>> www.dive-rite.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Paul Harris <paul.r.harris@te*.ne*>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Chris Elmore' <ElmoreC@gw*.sc*.ed*>; cmilz@Mi*.ED*
>>>>>>>>> <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>;
>>>>>> cavers@cavers.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <cavers@cavers.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:07 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: AUL canister light / light cord
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about this as a solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some friends and I were discussing non-wicking wire.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My (humble) opinion is that you need some way of transfering
>>>>>>>>>>>> air from the light head when you push the test tube on otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>> the positive pressure will push it off.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed that it is much easier to remove or replace the
>>>>>>>>>>>> test tube when the lid is off the cannister.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Claudia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I replaced my electrical cord I peeled the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> insulation back from both ends (after cutting it to the right
>>>>>>>>>>>>> length), put a wad of aquaseal around the wires, then pulled
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the insulation back up. This will keep any water from getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through a nick in the insulation and into the canister which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be what's happening to yours.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>>>>>> `techdiver@aq*.co*'.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aq*.co*'.
>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>

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