Lucky gog , ya ! What do you do for a living ?? At 09:23 PM 4/7/2000 -0400, Trey wrote: >Every day, for years. Usually swimming in the mornings , then running >after than, and riding at night, or the opposite, riding and running in >the morning and swimming at night. Here we have Masters at 6 am and 6 >pm, and we have pack rides every day, and we have the beach, and so >forth. Ft Lauderdale is a great place to train./ > > >Samy Elashmawy wrote: >> >> Trey , >> >> What kind of trianing routine do you have ? How meny times a week ect... >> >> At 03:16 PM 4/7/2000 -0400, Trey wrote: >> >Dan, my VO2 Max is 65 ml/kg , not 50 . I am almost 50 years old - so >> >maybe you got that number confused with my Vo2 max - you were there when >> >they tested me. Now it may be even higher, since I came down from 195 to >> >about 185 without losing any strength, and that last test was before I >> >even began training for Ironman. >> > >> >I like the correlation betewen VO2 max and decompresion success. As you >> >know, I did 370 minutes BT at Wakulla last Saturday and did 7:40 of deco >> >only. That is called being in shape. >> > >> >Dan L. Volker wrote: >> >> >> >> `35 ml /kg of body weight is average for a college aged person who is >> >> physically active in sports, but not in any elite category. The same >> >aged nerd who lays on the couch and watches TV may average 25 ml/kg, >> >provided he is not a HFS. >> >> >> >> Guys like George are around 50 ml/kg >> >> >> >> Elite, Olympic level cross country skiers average the highest, with around >> >> 70-75 ml/kg of body weight. >> >> >> >> A guy with a body fat over 30%, particularly if sedentary, would be >> >> fortunate to reach 10 or 15 ml/kg. >> >> >> >> VO2 max will predict the physical exertion potential of a diver, and the >> >> existence of a high VO2 max will correlate to an increased ability to off >> >> gas in deco---not by the VO2 max itself, but by the peripheral adaptations >> >> which the training created---the training led to the high VO2 max. >> >> >> >> Dan >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix*.ne*.co*] >> >> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:28 AM >> >> To: Dan L. Volker; trey@ne*.co*; 'Geoff Kelafant' >> >> Cc: 'Tom Mount'; 'Mike Bruic'; cavers@cavers.com >> >> Subject: RE: Madison diving >> >> >> >> At 04:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0400, Dan L. Volker wrote: >> >> >Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with >> >> >> >> Would you be kind enough to explian what there are , and where they are on >> >> the scale relative to the average person ? No flaming , I am genuanly >> >> interested . >> >> >> >> Volker ? didn't we have a dive fitness discussion ? >> >> >> >> >instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight. >> >> >Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when these >> >> >instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave, this is >> >> >the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be alive >> >> to >> >> >lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about >> >> >Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he had no >> >> >heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though >> >> >supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still. >> >> > >> >> >Dan Volker >> >> > >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >> >From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*] >> >> >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM >> >> >To: Geoff Kelafant >> >> >Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com >> >> >Subject: Re: Madison diving >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for >> >> >it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Geoff Kelafant wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> What absurdity. "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff doesn't >> >> >apply >> >> >> if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular. >> >> Actually, >> >> >> since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc. anyway, I >> >> >> don't think any of this really applies. >> >> >> >> >> >> If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a >> >> >detailed >> >> >> description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical demands >> >> >> are. In this case the physician should be someone well versed in diving >> >> >> medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some guy who >> >> is >> >> >> getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local doc in a >> >> >> box. I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've >> >> learned >> >> >> is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is on the >> >> >> line. Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address >> >> >> occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the >> cardiac, >> >> >> pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving. A simple "note from the >> >> >> doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is >> >> >simply >> >> >> unacceptable. >> >> >> >> >> >> I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails. Is it >> >> >> simply a note or form? Do they actually have to do something like a >> >> >stress >> >> >> test, running, biking, swimming, etc. Hmm... must be the IANTD >> >> >instructors >> >> >> I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program. >> >> >> >> >> >> When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training and >> >> >takes >> >> >> someone with him, I wonder what will happen? >> >> >> >> >> >> Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM >> >> >> Board Certified Occupational Medicine >> >> >> US Navy Diving Medical Officer >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> >> >> >> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> >> >> >> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM >> >> >> Subject: Re: Madison diving >> >> >> >> >> >> > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker is a >> >> >> > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder >> >> why? ), >> >> >> > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his >> >> factory >> >> >> > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Nice try, Tom. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness" >> >> means, >> >> >> > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate will >> not >> >> >> > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one minute from >> >> >> > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting a >> >> >> > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the 20 bpm >> >> >> > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate >> >> drops. >> >> >> > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone >> else is >> >> >> > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to be >> >> >> > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor, Tom, and >> >> >> > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Tom Mount wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > To both of you >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be >> >> signed >> >> >> off >> >> >> > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that. Bill also >> >> >did >> >> >> the >> >> >> > > fitness swim requirements as well. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor for >> >> >> signing >> >> >> > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work law and >> >> >you >> >> >> may >> >> >> > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and >> Bill. >> >> >> > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's >> >> >fitness. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal >> program as >> >> >> you >> >> >> > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No >> >> other >> >> >> > > agency including GUE does this. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Respectfully yours, >> >> >> > > Tom Mount >> >> >> > > CEO IANTD World HQ >> >> >> > > http://www.iantd.com >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> >> >> >> > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*> >> >> >> > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> >> >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM >> >> >> > > Subject: Re: Madison diving >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > Mike Bruic wrote: >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD, >> >> NACD, >> >> >> and >> >> >> > > the >> >> >> > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have the >> >> >> > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does >> >> >fuck-up, >> >> >> I >> >> >> > > hope >> >> >> > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes. >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > > Bruic >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the rest of >> >> >these >> >> >> > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his attorney, >> >> >Bill >> >> >> > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make him do >> >> >the >> >> >> > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address. >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > > >
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