Lucky gog , ya !

What do you do for a living ??



At 09:23 PM 4/7/2000 -0400, Trey wrote:
>Every day, for years. Usually swimming in the mornings , then running
>after than, and riding at night, or the opposite, riding and running in
>the morning and swimming at night. Here we have Masters at 6 am and 6
>pm, and we have pack rides every day, and we have the beach, and so
>forth. Ft Lauderdale is a great place to train./
>
>
>Samy Elashmawy wrote:
>> 
>> Trey ,
>> 
>> What kind of trianing routine do you have ? How meny times a week ect...
>> 
>> At 03:16 PM 4/7/2000 -0400, Trey wrote:
>> >Dan, my VO2 Max is 65 ml/kg , not 50 . I am almost 50 years old - so
>> >maybe you got that number confused with my Vo2 max - you were there when
>> >they tested me. Now it may be even higher, since I came down from 195 to
>> >about 185 without losing any strength, and that last test was before I
>> >even began training for Ironman.
>> >
>> >I like the correlation betewen VO2 max and decompresion success. As you
>> >know, I did 370 minutes BT at Wakulla last Saturday and did 7:40 of deco
>> >only. That is called being in shape.
>> >
>> >Dan L. Volker wrote:
>> >>
>> >> `35 ml /kg of body weight is average for a college aged person who is
>> >> physically active in sports, but not in any elite category. The same
>> >aged  nerd who lays on the couch and watches TV may average 25 ml/kg,
>> >provided he is not a HFS.
>> >>
>> >> Guys like George are around 50 ml/kg
>> >>
>> >> Elite, Olympic level cross country skiers average the highest, with
around
>> >> 70-75 ml/kg of body weight.
>> >>
>> >> A guy with a body fat over 30%, particularly if sedentary, would be
>> >> fortunate to reach 10 or 15 ml/kg.
>> >>
>> >> VO2 max will predict the physical exertion potential of a diver, and the
>> >> existence of a high VO2 max will correlate to an increased ability to
off
>> >> gas in deco---not by the VO2 max itself, but by the peripheral
adaptations
>> >> which the training created---the training led to the high VO2 max.
>> >>
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix*.ne*.co*]
>> >> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:28 AM
>> >> To: Dan L. Volker; trey@ne*.co*; 'Geoff Kelafant'
>> >> Cc: 'Tom Mount'; 'Mike Bruic'; cavers@cavers.com
>> >> Subject: RE: Madison diving
>> >>
>> >> At 04:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0400, Dan L. Volker wrote:
>> >> >Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with
>> >>
>> >> Would you be kind enough to explian what there are , and where they
are on
>> >> the scale relative to the average person ? No flaming , I am genuanly
>> >> interested .
>> >>
>> >> Volker ? didn't we have a dive fitness discussion ?
>> >>
>> >> >instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
>> >> >Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when
these
>> >> >instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave,
this is
>> >> >the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be
alive
>> >> to
>> >> >lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
>> >> >Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he
had no
>> >> >heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
>> >> >supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
>> >> >
>> >> >Dan Volker
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
>> >> >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
>> >> >To: Geoff Kelafant
>> >> >Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
>> >> >Subject: Re: Madison diving
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for
>> >> >it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Geoff Kelafant wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff
doesn't
>> >> >apply
>> >> >> if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.
>> >> Actually,
>> >> >> since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc.
anyway, I
>> >> >> don't think any of this really applies.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a
>> >> >detailed
>> >> >> description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical
demands
>> >> >> are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in
diving
>> >> >> medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some
guy who
>> >> is
>> >> >> getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local
doc in a
>> >> >> box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've
>> >> learned
>> >> >> is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is
on the
>> >> >> line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
>> >> >> occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the
>> cardiac,
>> >> >> pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note
from the
>> >> >> doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is
>> >> >simply
>> >> >> unacceptable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.
Is it
>> >> >> simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like a
>> >> >stress
>> >> >> test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
>> >> >instructors
>> >> >> I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training and
>> >> >takes
>> >> >> someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
>> >> >> Board Certified Occupational Medicine
>> >> >> US Navy Diving Medical Officer
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> >> >> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> >> >> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Madison diving
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker
is a
>> >> >> > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder
>> >> why? ),
>> >> >> > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his
>> >> factory
>> >> >> > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Nice try, Tom.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness"
>> >> means,
>> >> >> > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate will
>> not
>> >> >> > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one
minute from
>> >> >> > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting  a
>> >> >> > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the
20 bpm
>> >> >> > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate
>> >> drops.
>> >> >> > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone
>> else is
>> >> >> > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to be
>> >> >> > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor,
Tom, and
>> >> >> > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Tom Mount wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > To both of you
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be
>> >> signed
>> >> >> off
>> >> >> > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that.
Bill also
>> >> >did
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > > fitness swim requirements as well.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor
for
>> >> >> signing
>> >> >> > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work
law and
>> >> >you
>> >> >> may
>> >> >> > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and
>> Bill.
>> >> >> > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's
>> >> >fitness.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal
>> program as
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No
>> >> other
>> >> >> > > agency including GUE does this.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Respectfully yours,
>> >> >> > > Tom Mount
>> >> >> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
>> >> >> > > http://www.iantd.com
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> >> >> > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>> >> >> > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
>> >> >> > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD,
>> >> NACD,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have
the
>> >> >> > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
>> >> >fuck-up,
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> > > hope
>> >> >> > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Bruic
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the
rest of
>> >> >these
>> >> >> > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his
attorney,
>> >> >Bill
>> >> >> > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make
him do
>> >> >the
>> >> >> > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>

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