Art,

You are close enough to NYC to get good pizza there, which is why you are 
unaware of the problems with "pizza" outside of this locality. Al is indeed 
correct -- most of the world's best pizza is found in Brooklyn; however 
there are many fine pizza establishments in the other four boroughs of the 
city. John's pizza, on the south side Bleeker street, just east of 7th Ave. 
is one of my favorites. Coincidentally, Oak Neck Pizza, in Babylon (or is 
it Bay Shore?), just a five minute drive from the Wahoo, makes some pretty 
good pizza as well. (Or maybe it's just that I'm always tired and 
half-starved when I go there.)

In Texas, pizza is made by putting cheez whiz and catsup on a saltine. I 
think that this may be the process that Pizza Hut uses as well.

In addition to the points Al made about the crust and oven, the use of 
high-quality fresh mozzarella cheese and tomato sauce "made from scratch" 
on the premises is key to good pizza. Poor or bottled sauce leads to dull 
(flavorless) and often dry pizza, and low quality cheese often has a 
texture not dissimilar to melted plastic, with loads of disgusting grease 
sliding off of it (requiring the use of industrial-strength paper towels to 
sop it up before attempting to eat it).

As far as the bagels, H&H are undoubtedly the best, but there is a place 
across the street from me that bakes excellent bagels, which I can get warm 
at about any time of the day.  When you come to New York to get your Real 
Pizza, Real Shipwreck Diving and Real Bagels, insist on H&H bagels. You 
will want to buy at least a dozen of them, wrap them in paper and then 
plastic, and bring them home frozen on dry ice so that you can continue to 
enjoy them for a few days after returning home.

The failure of bagels outside of the New York area is due to two or three 
things: (1) wrong water (as with the pizza), (2) wrong elevation and (3) 
improper technique. The technique is really the key. You can make bagels 
that are sort of edible practically anywhere if you use the correct 
technique -- they won't be all that good as good but at least they won't be 
disgusting. Bagels are made by a two-stage process -- they are both baked 
and boiled.

Grits, in my opinion, are one thing we are missing here in New York. Grits 
are some part of the corn kernel, which is cooked in water like oatmeal. 
Grits are both tasty and nutritious, better for you than home fries and 
more flavorful than oatmeal.

At 04:23 PM 03/30/2000 , Paltz, Art wrote:
>I don't know about south of Newark not having good pizza.  I live about 20
>miles south of Newark in Edison and there is some really good pizza.  I also
>work in Newark as well as have an office in Manhattan and the Pizza is
>equally good.  I agree, South Jersey is the pits for Pizza so any of the
>shore points are out of the question.
>
>Your issue with Bagels is correct, can't get a good one in Jersey, gotta go
>to Brooklyn.
>
>As for Shipwrecks, can't be beat up here!
>
>Art.
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:   Al Marvelli [SMTP:ajmarve@ba*.ne*]
>         Sent:   Thursday, March 30, 2000 4:33 PM
>         To:     Nanci LeVake
>         Cc:     fossildiver@mi*.co*; Paltz, Art; cavers@cavers.com
>         Subject:        Re: Bent Jill
>
>         Nanci,
>
>         I regret to inform you that there are no actual pizza places in 
> Gainsville
>         desptie what you have been lead to believe. Pizza cannot 
> generally be made
>         south of Newark, or west of Scranton. The redneck factor tends to 
> mutiliate the
>         process, and you get these sandwich shops< grinders> that could 
> not bake their
>         way out of the Bastille.
>
>         Your first clue as to whether there is any hope in these areas is 
> the presence
>         or absence of a large stone oven, with a narrow wide mouth. Pizza 
> cannot be
>         made on a conveyor belt or a rotiserrie, do not even attempt to 
> tell me
>         otherwise. The oven needs to be on all the time to acheive proper 
> temperature.
>         If they turn the knobs after you order, run like the wind.
>
>         West of the Mississippi or south of the Ohio, the water lacks the 
> specific
>         mineral content to allow the crust to form properly. Pizza crust 
> should be firm
>         enough to snap on the bottom and soft enough to be chewy just 
> under the sauce.
>         Sicillian pies < square for all you goobers> should have a large 
> layer of chewy
>         , followed by a thin hard bottom that is not burnt.  There is a 
> large business
>         in overnight shipment of correct pizza dough to places like Los 
> Angeles and Las
>         Vegas, but I doubt you will find it in Gainsville.
>
>         You have most likely never had an actual bagel either. Bagels 
> should be hard on
>         the outside and chewy on the inside, and should not have a 
> uniform roll like
>         consistency.
>
>         Grits , Thank God, cannot be found north of Maryland, except on 
> US Military
>         bases where they are standard fare for those conditioned to no 
> longer care
>         about flavor.
>
>         So now you have three reasons to Visit Brooklyn: pizza, bagels 
> and shipwrecks.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Al Marvelli

<-snip->

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