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<As a member of this list for over two years I have read almost every posting during that time frame. I have watched everything from the extremely heated discussions on "deep air" to the discussions of the WK2 project and everything in between. However, everytime a cave diver is killed it is interesting how the "two sides" can't wait to jump on the death bandwagon and start playing the blame game on how they died, whose fault it was, and "what a stroke they were for having died." I personally participate in a variety of activities which most of the general public would consider "extreme sports." Some of these activities include: mountain climbing, rock climbing, and white water kayaking to name a few. In each of these "extreme sports" people die every single year. One of the things I have noticed is that in none of these other sports, which all have newsgroups like this one, does anyone "faction" take such glee in the death of person. Sadly this is not the case with this group. As with any death in any "extreme sport," the cause of death can be blamed in a dozen different ways i.e. the 1996 Everest disaster for example. The bottom line is cave diving is dangerous and people will continue to die as long as their are caves to dive in just like people will continue to die on mountains as long as people continue to climb them. My only request is when a "cave death" occurs you opposing factions out there stop taking such glee and seeing how many people or things you can blame. The bottom line is no one has EVER been forced to go cave diving.>> __________________________________ With all your varied "extreme" activities, it is amazing you have time to read the list at all. It used to be uncommon for "trained" cave divers to die in caves. Distressingly, the scenario of a diver who supposedly knows better not attaining a 1:1 entry to exit ratio is becoming more common. Cave diving is potentially dangerous, but I don't think it is nearly as dangerous as many of the pursuits you mention (some of which I used to do myself). A lot of people worked very hard to remedy the slaughter of the 70's and for a time were very successful. I think your premise that "people will continue to die as long as their are caves to dive" is pathetic at best and negates all the past and present efforts to make the sport safer. I don't think anyone who does this very much at all that has half a brain just accepts that someday they will die (get bent maybe, but not die). The training and experience issue *is* important. The fatal dive (nearly a double fatality if you read the report carefully) had two divers diving far beyond their experience and capabilities. An intro cave diver would never get to the well casing using double 95's following all the rules or just plain common sense. If you've never been in the passage from the Dome Room past the well casing you'd realize even if they could get to it with proper air management that it might not be the best place for inexperienced divers, especially with scooters. Their choice of equipment and dive plan (or lack thereof) as well as the result speaks for itself. Your comments lead me to believe you think that anyone should be able to pursue anything at anytime, no matter how poorly qualified or prepared they are physically or mentally. Nowadays "extreme" seems to be defined by the financial ability of a gullible and thrillseeking rube to participate in the game of their choice (load the chamber and spin the barrel) Dragging anybody with more money than sense up Everest or K2 is not "extreme", it is ignorant and maybe even negligent. Granted there is a causal chain in tragic events such as this, but the outcome was not entirely unpredictable or surprising. My perception is that many don't have a good grasp of their own mortality and believe they are invincible Are George et al somewhat extreme and forceful with their message? Hell yes. They need to be. As a community and "sport" we're losing ground. The reckless actions of a few affect the many. Someone has to go in and pull out the corpses (witness the recent event). Somebody has to maintain landowner relationships with private owners, the state, etc and deaths don't benefit ANYONE. Somebody has to train cave divers in the first place, and I believe as do many others that the system of training needs to be seriously evaluated and overhauled. The latest victim was an active and willing participant in the events leading to his unfortunate demise. Should we celebrate all the wonderful decisions the dive team made and rejoice that it was not a double fatality? It is important to know how and why the dive went terribly wrong, and that has been a part of accident analysis since Sheck formalized it many years ago. To just write this divers death off as a necessary part of cave diving is sheer insanity. Geoff Kelafant
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