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Thanks again, Dan. That's what I was asking about. That was a good and informative answer. I appreciate your help and cooperation since I'm really a newbie caver (or, I guess that really means I'm a stroke?). At least I'm a stroke who asks for help. Nice to have gotten some. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan L. Volker [mailto:dan@sf*.co*] > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 1:56 PM > To: 'Kreska Jack-FJK003'; Dan Volker > Cc: cavers@cavers.com > Subject: RE: Bondage Wings?/ Now 7 warning signs of cancer.... > > > My opinion:they have several problems.... I don't like to see > divers using a > BC which claims to have 60 or 80 pounds, or 100 pounds of > lift, when they > need only 20 or 30 pounds of lift----most of the bungee > brands claim huge > lift capacities, and if they did achieve these lift ratings, > they would be > very dangerous for many divers, since they are sold to people > who actually > need much less lift, and would face potentially catastrophic > results should > they experience a run away inflation. Another major problem > involves a > diver who does match rated lift with the negative weight of > their gear---too > many times in the past, divers have been compromised in > dangerous situations > because the bungees prevented the rated lift from > occurring--when it was > needed---causing the diver problems in getting off the bottom > and ascending. > This can be from having bungees too tight, or even set to mfg > guidelines, > but with a slight inflator valve leak, the bungees can > prevent the wings > from inflating. > In another scenario, a diver may need to inflate the BC > manually, due to a > regulator or gas failure, and the added resistance of the > bungees makes this > procedure more difficult, and at times, dangerous. > > While few divers will argue that streamlining is necessary in > diving, the > idea of adding all the extra turbulence and drag of the large > bungeed wings > is just too stupid to say much more about. Ultimately, these > bungeed wings > look good in the showroom to divers who don't know any > better, and the fact > that they have bought them becomes scary when they show up > for a potentially > dangerous dive. > > Regards, > Dan Volker > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreska Jack-FJK003 [mailto:Jack_Kreska-FJK003@em*.mo*.co*] > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 1:19 PM > To: 'Dan L. Volker' > Cc: cavers@cavers.com > Subject: RE: Bondage Wings?/ Now 7 warning signs of cancer.... > > > Thanks, Dan. I understand what you said, but having never > tried the wings, > what's the problem with them? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan L. Volker [mailto:dan@sf*.co*] > > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 11:09 AM > > To: 'Kreska Jack-FJK003'; trey@ne*.co* > > Cc: cavers@cavers.com > > Subject: RE: Bondage Wings?/ Now 7 warning signs of cancer.... > > > > > > The point George is making is that several visual clues exist > > that will help > > all of us to see accidents waiting to happen, and potentially > > this warning > > can be used to intervene on some occasions. > > > > If you see a guy wearing bondage wings, about to step into a > > potentially > > dangerous environment, a warning flag should go up for > > you----the fact that > > he is wearing it suggests to me he is listening to the wrong > > people, and > > buying gear for its look in the showroom over its function > > underwater. It > > should push you to look further, and see if the other "seven > > warning signs > > of cancer" are there as well---the more signs, the more > > likely you are to > > feel a responsibility to intervene....1. stuffed long > > hose...2. Console > > with computer hanging down to knees, waiting for > entanglement..3 large > > numbers of D-Rings sporting an assortment of dive gear which > > does not belong > > with him on this dive, along with bondage wings...4. stage > > bottle hanging on > > each side of him...5. Instead of tank markings, poodle > > jackets or color > > scheming...6. Wearing Original Force fins or newer bio fins, > > and oblivious > > to the shame of it :-) ...7 ..and of course, if he has a > > Spare Air strapped > > on :-) > > > > Actually, the list could be larger, but the idea is, bad mind > > sets and poor > > skill sets are going to correlate well with certain gear choices and > > configurations. We see this time and time again with the > > past deaths. No, > > the bondage wings themselves did not kill this guy; but the > > mindset that > > allowed him to wear gear like this will suggest to many of > us that an > > accident will be following this guy--if not today, in his > foreseeable > > future.... > > > > When a guy dies and someone asks if he was wearing bondage > > wings, you might > > interpret this like seeing a car crash going the wrong way on > > an Interstate, > > and asking if the guy was drunk.... > > > > Dan Volker > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kreska Jack-FJK003 [mailto:Jack_Kreska-FJK003@em*.mo*.co*] > > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:55 AM > > To: 'trey@ne*.co*' > > Cc: 'cavers@cavers.com' > > Subject: RE: Bondage Wings? > > > > > > Gee, George, or Pal, when did I ever recommend bondage wings? > > As far as what > > I use, how would you have any idea, we've never met and I > > seriously doubt > > you've ever seen me dive since I'm not qualified to do the > > type of diving > > you do. > > > > Your arrogance and conceit don't contribute to the sport > > much. I simply > > asked how bondage wings could have contributed to his death > > and all you > > "superior divers" respond as if I'm supposed to know or I'm > > stupid and a > > stroke for not knowing. Since I've never tried them, how > > should I know? > > > > Now, how about a reasonable response from someone? Maybe Bill > > Mee, he seems > > to be able to converse intelligently. > > > > Jack > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: trey@ne*.co* [mailto:trey@ne*.co*] > > > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:37 AM > > > To: Kreska Jack-FJK003 > > > Cc: 'Pete J Stueve'; cavers@cavers.com > > > Subject: Re: Bondage Wings? > > > > > > > > > Gee, Jack, I don't know. Let's see here. We have a fine > > > performance by a > > > pair of real pros : one who obviously can't dive and dies > > proving it, > > > and a true stroke who leaves buddy per the Rennaker "who > is the most > > > improtant diver" mentality. > > > > > > Let me ask you this , Jack, what kidn of MORON uses bondage > > wings? Is > > > this an example, or what? > > > > > > Look, pal, I am real sick of you and the mentality you > > represent. You > > > don't get it. People are dying and you geniuses can't see the big > > > picture. The big picture is that most of you have no clue how > > > to do any > > > of this, and you are all honding hands in your ingnorance > and trying > > > desperately to defend your bullshit practices, bullshit thinking , > > > bullshit gear, and bullshit instruction - all contibuting > factors to > > > this INEVEITABLE outcome in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > Kreska Jack-FJK003 wrote: > > > > > > > > What does that have to do with his death? Notice that he > > > still had air and > > > > the reg was out of his mouth. Seems like he panicked to me???? > > > > > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Pete J Stueve [mailto:pstueve@ju*.co*] > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > To: cavers@cavers.com > > > > > Subject: Bondage Wings? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George asked a couple days ago was the guy at Little > > River wearing > > > > > bondage wings. Yes, the dead diver was indeed wearing > > > bondage wings. > > > > > > > > > > pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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