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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stockmann, Sten <sten.stockmann@ca*.fi*> An: 'Submariner Germany' <info@su*.de*> Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com> Datum: Freitag, 20. August 1999 14:32 Betreff: RE: DEEP AIR VOTE, was: (RE: Re:IANTD vs 70 m air instruction and158m air dives You gotta be kidding) > Have you ever thought about water temperatures of 4°C (39F)? Hey- we dive in 2-3 C water all year around. Ever heard of argon ? That's not the point. > Have ever thought about prices of Helium in Europe? If you can't afford to do it right - don't bother doing it at all. Congratulations! We must be a very poor country in Germany if all your divers in Finnland can afford Trimix fills. You might get your Helium cheap from your Russian buddies for peanuts. In Germany we have to pay around USD 250.-- for 10,000 Litres of Helium. > Have you ever thought about common diving practices in Central Europe? Frankly, most of it is bullshit, with full-face masks and pair-lines. If you have never been in Central Europe for Diving you better don't comment on this. Yours Benjamin Altkorn regards, Sten Stockmann Baltic Sea Tech Divers Helsinki, Finland -- Sten Stockmann Business Consulting CAP GEMINI OY Niittymäentie 9 FIN-02200 Espoo FINLAND Tel. +358-9-45265229 Fax. +358-9-4523548 E-mail sten.stockmann@ca*.fi* > -----Original Message----- > From: Submariner Germany [mailto:info@su*.de*] > Sent: 20. elokuuta 1999 13:14 > To: Richard Pyle; Chris Werner > Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne*; Wrolf Courtney; halcyon@ha*.ne*; Bill Mee; > Tom Mount; bdi@wh*.ne*; techdiver@aq*.co*; Christian > Gerzner; Mark > the Nark Andrews; Afonso Pinheiro Junior; Barrie Heard; Bill Nadeau; > Dick Rutkowski; Erika Haley; Fabio Amaral; Fabio Ruberti; Frans > Vandermolen; Garry Howland; Gil; Gina & Mark Leonard; Gregg Stanton; > IANTD Czech; IANTD Germany; IANTD Greece; IANTD Holland; > IANTD Ireland; > IANTD JAPAN; IANTD Japan Training; IANTD Korea; IANTD > Micronesia; IANTD > Philippines; IANTD Philippines Alex; IANTD Portugal; IANTD S.E. Asia; > IANTD Scandanvia; IANTD South Africa; IANTD Spain; IANTD Sweden; Jill > Heinerth; Jim Mims; John Thornton; Joseph Dituri; kevin gurr; Kim > Cochrane; Lamar Hires; Nick Jewson; Paul Lijnen; Paul > Neilsen; REG BOER > @ BARBARA HENSBY; Richard Nordstrom; Shelley orlowski; > Vebjørn Karlsen; > Victor Williams; William J Turbeville II; Jr."; cavers@cavers.com; Jim > Cobb; kirvne@sa*.ne*; "\"Jess Armantrout\""; Dan L. Volker; "\"Jody > Everett\""; Lawrence Orchard-London; john@ro*.co*.uk* > Subject: Re: DEEP AIR VOTE, was: (RE: Re:IANTD vs 70 m air instruction > and158m air dives You gotta be kidding) > > > Just want to ask some important questions: > > Have you ever thought about water temperatures of 4°C (39F)? > Have ever thought about prices of Helium in Europe? > Have you ever thought about common diving practices in Central Europe? > > As we all know is N-Narcosis not only depending on the ppN. > The psychlogical > effects of the different environments count at least as much > as the ppN. A > limit of 130 ft on Air could be way to much or more or less > no problem. To > limit the use of air to a max depth of 130 ft. is not our > favorite limit. > > Yours > > IANTD Germany, Austria & Switzerland > > Benjamin & Marion Altkorn > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.or*> > An: Chris Werner <clw5232@ga*.ac*.fs*.ed*> > Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; Wrolf Courtney > <wrolf@wr*.ne*>; halcyon@ha*.ne* <halcyon@ha*.ne*>; Bill Mee > <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; bdi@wh*.ne* > <bdi@wh*.ne*>; techdiver@aq*.co* > <techdiver@aq*.co*>; Christian > Gerzner <christiang@pi*.co*.au*>; Mark the Nark Andrews > <extreme@de*.fr*.co*.uk*>; Afonso Pinheiro Junior > <afonso0@ib*.ne*>; Barrie Heard <bheard@dc*.ne*.au*>; Bill Nadeau > <tekdiver@na*.ar*.co*>; Dick Rutkowski > <dick@hy*.co*>; Erika > Haley <haley@ca*.ky*>; Fabio Amaral > <fabio_amaral@ya*.co*>; Fabio Ruberti > <ruberti@io*.it*>; Frans Vandermolen <75204.1243@co*.co*>; Garry > Howland <ghowland@fw*.gu*.ne*>; Gil > <gildiver@di*.co*.br*>; Gina & Mark > Leonard <ginamark@at*.ne*>; Gregg Stanton > <gstanton@ma*.fs*.ed*>; > IANTD Czech <kony@un*.cz*>; IANTD Germany > <iantd@su*.de*>; IANTD > Greece <iantdgr@at*.mb*.gr*>; IANTD Holland > <tekkie@xs*.nl*>; IANTD > Ireland <IANTDIRL@ao*.co*>; IANTD JAPAN > <iantdjp@di*.co*>; IANTD > Japan Training <iantdjp@di*.co*>; IANTD Korea > <aad@sa*.co*>; IANTD > Micronesia <psdivers@ku*.gu*.ne*>; IANTD Philippines > <iantd-rp@i-*.co*.ph*>; IANTD Philippines Alex > <techsec@i-*.co*.ph*>; IANTD Portugal > <po12210@pt*.ib*.co*>; IANTD S.E. > Asia <khooss@si*.co*.sg*>; IANTD Scandanvia > <egil@av*.fi*>; IANTD > South Africa <iantdsa@ia*.co*>; IANTD Spain > <iantdspa@dn*.ii*.es*>; > IANTD Sweden <info@ia*.co*>; Jill Heinerth > <heinerth@gt*.ne*>; Jim > Mims <divetek@oc*.co*>; John Thornton > <Johnpt@sc*.co*>; Joseph > Dituri <dive4wrk@pi*.co*>; kevin gurr > <100044.3401@co*.co*>; Kim > Cochrane <Cochrane@ac*.co*>; Lamar Hires > <lamar@di*.co*>; Nick > Jewson <NickJewson@co*.co*>; Paul Lijnen > <paull@vi*.uu*.be*>; > Paul Neilsen <mandarin@ga*.ne*.hk*>; REG BOER @ BARBARA HENSBY > <regboer@bi*.co*>; Richard Nordstrom <74663.1663@co*.co*>; > Shelley orlowski <orlowski@at*.ne*>; Vebjørn Karlsen > <karlsenv@on*.no*>; Victor Williams > <diving@sp*.co*>; William J > Turbeville II <bturbo@ga*.ne*>; Jr." <ahall@da*.co*>; > cavers@cavers.com > <cavers@cavers.com>; Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; > kirvne@sa*.ne* > <kirvne@sa*.ne*>; "\"Jess Armantrout\"" > <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; > Dan L. Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>; "\"Jody Everett\"" > <jeverett@ne*.co*>; Lawrence Orchard-London > <lorchard@Ru*.co*>; john@ro*.co*.uk* > <john@ro*.co*.uk*> > Datum: Freitag, 20. August 1999 05:03 > Betreff: Re: DEEP AIR VOTE, was: (RE: Re:IANTD vs 70 m air instruction > and158m air dives You gotta be kidding) > > > > > >The only reason I do it that way is that it is extremely easy with a > >rebreather. If I was still diving OC, I'd not waste my time > with helium > >shallower than about 150 or so. > > > >Aloha, > >Rich > > > >On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Chris Werner wrote: > > > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.or*> > >> > If you really wanted to be conservative, then you might > drop maximum > Pnarc > >> > to 4.0 atm, and require helium on all dives deeper than > 100 fsw. I > might > >> > be in favor of that, as it is more or less the route I > have taken on my > >> > own dives. > >> > > >> > >> Richie, I hate to have to do this but, I agree with you. > The limit should > be > >> somewhere around this value. This is what we are > practicing and it is > good > >> to see others that are actually diving, adopting this same > type of SOP. > No > >> matter how you came about it. It is better for narcosis > and for deco. > While > >> I don't use air at all, an EAD of 100' is my absolute > limit on narcosis. > It > >> appears as those who do little or no deep/cave diving are > the ones who > are > >> consistently pushing the limits. Those of us who are > consistently diving > >> every week have already figured this one out. It is a > shame that those > who > >> give the advice have not come to the same conclusions. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > > > >Richard Pyle > >Ichthyology, Bishop Museum deepreef@bi*.or* > >1525 Bernice St. PH: (808) 848-4115 > >Honolulu, HI 96817-2704 FAX: (808) 847-8252 > > > > >
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