Joel, this thread is absolutely one of the most misguided posts I've ever
read. You and the entire cc list of this post must be the toughest divers
out there. No one I dive with ever uses air for anything, except to inflate
our bike tires. Air is absolutely the worst diving gas available.  As you
began your little rant, I must admit that the first sentence is the only one
that made any sense. In fact, air should be completely banned from all
diving and training. It is preposterous to even conclude that anyone can
function rationally on air at 150' let alone 175'. You must still not get
it. Why would you ever use air? Trimix should always be used below 130',
with nitrox used for everything shallower.  Not one diver I dive with even
uses any mix with greater than 100' EAD. This is one of the single largest
problems with so called 'tech' diving today.
    No one can work on air efficiently at the depths you advocate. This is
like saying we should all go get drunk and drive our cars to practice being
intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle. Most of us are all lucky to
have survived deep air and its associated wrath upon our bodies. From the
narcosis to the damage done during decompression, AIR IS THE WRONG CHOICE.
Air should never be your safety gas.  Switching from trimix to air at depth
is a recipe for disaster. This is what is contributing to many of the
fatalities occurring today. We are all in a position to change this, in fact
I even see that Tom Mount is finally coming around. No doubt it only took
the insanity of Mark Andrews to open his eyes. You and everyone on the cc
list (I must admit one of the largest collection of DIW divers I have ever
seen) need to stop yapping and start listening to those of us who are doing
it, and doing it safely. I agree that experience is one of the greatest
attributes of good divers, but consistently DIW for so long is not
experience it is just luck. Good divers DIR, not get by on chance and luck.
    This post of your is almost as ridiculous as you trying to tell us on
freeattic how to change stage bottles. You for one need to quit diving all
together before you get someone killed with your misinformation.

AIR at any depth = NO

Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Silverstein <joelsilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*>
To: <techdiver@aq*.co*>
Cc: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>;
<bdi@wh*.ne*>; Mark the Nark Andrews <extreme@de*.fr*.co*.uk*>;
Afonso Pinheiro Junior <afonso0@ib*.ne*>; Barrie Heard
<bheard@dc*.ne*.au*>;
Bill Nadeau <tekdiver@na*.ar*.co*>; Dick Rutkowski
<dick@hy*.co*>; Erika Haley <haley@ca*.ky*>; Fabio Amaral
<fabio_amaral@ya*.co*>; Fabio Ruberti <ruberti@io*.it*>; Frans Vandermolen
<75204.1243@co*.co*>; <wahoo2001@ao*.co*>; <WahooJan@ao*.co*>;
<Garlooent@ao*.co*>; Garry Howland <ghowland@fw*.gu*.ne*>; Gil
<gildiver@di*.co*.br*>; Gina & Mark Leonard <ginamark@at*.ne*>;
Gregg Stanton <gstanton@ma*.fs*.ed*>; IANTD Czech <kony@un*.cz*>; IANTD
Germany <iantd@su*.de*>; IANTD Greece <iantdgr@at*.mb*.gr*>; IANTD
Holland <tekkie@xs*.nl*>; IANTD Ireland <IANTDIRL@ao*.co*>; IANTD JAPAN
<iantdjp
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: DEEP AIR VOTE


> Dear Fellow Divers,
>
> With the current state of gas availability using non-narcotic breathing
> mixes is not necessary to conduct dives deep with air. However it would
> behove most of those who are out there on the training and working end of
> this business to at least be able to work and function with N2 pressures
of
> 5.0. There may come a time when it is needed.  As I look over this long
> list, it is pretty clear that most everyone here has done successful dives
> to 175 fsw (and deeper) with air (if not they would not be on the list).
>
> Most if not all of use were doing air dives in the late 80's early 90's
> when the development of technical (read TRIMIX) was making its way through
> the scuba ranks. Key people like Billy Deans made the switch to gas and
set
> the pattern for open ocean mix diving, but still he would consider 175 fsw
> for air to be a reasonable depth that people should be able to use air
for.
>  The USN and most every commercial operation still uses air to depths of
> 190 fsw on a regular basis using hat and hose.
>
> As much as we would like to STAMP OUT DEEP AIR -- there will always be
> those who will take anything and everything deeper than they should. We
> have little control of that. However, we can take them one at a time and
> provide them with the tools and information to make a rational informed
> decision as to what type of dive they will do.
>
> I do not use air for any of our training deeper than 150 fsw. I do not
> belive that the students can conformably do the work they need to do under
> a greater level of narcosis. Frankly if a diver cannot use that viable gas
> to that depth then they have no business diving deeper than 100 fsw.
>
> We need to keep in perspective that much of what we know today came from
> some brave (albeit misinformed) people who stepped out farther and deeper
> than others would care to at a time when they had a need to go look at
> something.
>
> Unfortunately there had been some successful failures along the way. But
we
> all learned from them. There were also successful survivors, who have been
> more than instrumental in the development of our activities.
>
> We are about to go through a new cycle in divers. The accidents will rise
> because these divers have no reference point. The average diver today
> buying "techincal" gear has less than 50 career dives. What was once
> equipment for the "hard core deep divers" is now commonplace in most every
> dive store.  Just like fast cars, and fast planes, the inexperienced find
> this attractive and belive they can do things they are just not prepared
to
> do. We each have a responsiblity to head that off at the pass. These
divers
> need to put in a few hundred practicle dives before they can begin
> attempting some of these deeper dives, on ANY gas. A CLEAR HEAD IS NOT AN
> EXCUSE FOR EXPERIENCE. We each have a responsiblity to question Should
they
> Dive Tech?
>
> DEEP AIR
>
> Air deeper than 175 fsw for practicle diving -- NO
> Air deeper than 150 fsw for training -- NO
>
> Regards,
>
> Joel Silverstein
> http://www.nitroxdiver.com
>
>
>
>

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