Dell, both you and Lamar need to decide what is right and what is wrong.
You already did on the hose stuffing crap, on the lights, and on a few
other things. Now you know damn well Mount is dead wrong on the bottle
markings. Stand up and be counted, and quit worrying about reprisals
from the losers in this game who spend no money anyway, and who are
ruining the sport from which you two make your living.

Nobody is looking to Lamar to be a gas guru, he has his own areas of
expertise. However, when the Miami Mouth starts trying to tell the WKPP
that we don't know what we are doing and uses Lamar as "proof", I am
going to be right there with the bullshit repellent. 

Don't let the idiots drag you through their personal hell with them. The
fact is that the convoluted stupidity that Mount calls "standards" are
so dangerous as to be criminal in my opinion, and his track record
supports that opinion.

We need simple solutions to the accident problems, not more bullshit out
of Mount.

dell wrote:
> 
> Well, you are still totally predictable and consistent thats for sure.
> I enjoy too many things other than decompressing to enter your "arena". I
> could care less about trying to find a way to "out do you and the WKPP"
> either. I haven't had any cotton in my ears for awhile now, but it's not
> packed in my mouth either. I will continue to learn on a daily basis, from
> you and many others, but I also don't hesitate to question something until I
> understand it completely. I don't recall ever telling you how to do
> anything, especially long,deep  exploration. So, the issue was Lamar doing
> his first "gas" dive and you kissing Toms' ass in Macys when he does.
> When's the big event ?? It's a couple of years over due now.
> Perhaps you should have worded it like " his first gas dive in the wkp out
> past 18,000 feet and make it to Lucy Ho's for dinner". That could not be
> disputed for sure.
> I'll talk to you later, I'm sure.
> Dell
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
> Cc: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Ken
> Sallot <sallot@mi*.co*>; Nanci LeVake <nlevake@pi*.co*>;
> techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
> <cavers@cavers.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 11:19 AM
> Subject: Re: A Dead Skunk: The growing stink of Bottle Marking
> 
> >Dell, when you or Lamar or anyone else racks up my track record, you can
> >tell me how to do it. Until then, you , Lamar, Tom and the rest need to
> >take the cotton out of your ears and stick in in your mouths.
> >
> >Speaking of Mouths, it is the Mouth himself who tried to tell us that
> >Lamar Hires was one of the ridiculuous collection of idiots that he
> >calls "advisors", and every time he does somthing like that, I will drag
> >whoemever that might be right into the light for inspection with Mouth,
> >and let them try to tell me they agree with his assine horsehit. Tell
> >Mount to leave you out of his battles , and that is just what it is -
> >his fight against anything and everything we do over everyone elses dead
> >body.
> >
> > Obviously you do not, but are trying to pussyfoot around about it. If
> >you do not agree, tell Mouth why, don't try to tell me that you have
> >become the big time gas diving expert, I know better.
> >
> >The fact is that none of you has the information, knowledge, time or
> >experience that I have with this and I am not going to listen to your
> >bullshit about it. Try dragging your ass out to see how we do things
> >instead of speculating about it. Both of you and even the Mouth himself
> >have been extended that invitation. Try looking at our information base
> >- the Navy's Spec Warfare does. You and Lamar might learn something
> >instead of becoming associtated with one of the most obviously
> >inconsistent blubbering goobs in diving.
> >
> >Attempting to cover for  Mount by pretending that he has not been
> >fumbling around in the dark in the wake of the worst track record
> >outside of TDI or Bill Stone is not going to cut it. If you or Lamar had
> >anything to do with the bullshit he is practicing, then both of you are
> >morons. His track record says so, and I have the body recoveries and
> >recovery attmepts to PROVE IT. Next time his training agency bags one on
> >a "gas dive", you and Lamar drag you big time asses down here and fish
> >out the body, and spend the day with the cops while they try to decide
> >whether or not to file MANSLAUGHTER charges, and then tell me how smart
> >Mouth and IANTDI is.
> >
> >The simple fact is that you and Bobby had to find out the hard way that
> >I know what the hell I am doing, and you better than anyone else know
> >why I will not accomodate crap like Mouth's "standards"  for ten
> >seconds. I will also remind you that you , Lamar, Tom, and the rest all
> >called me a "ditatator" and complained about the way I run the WKPP.
> >
> >Now all of you have 158 guys to complain about - they all operate under
> >zero tolerance of bullshit just like I do.
> >
> >Al the rest of you are doing is bouncing off of the walls covering old
> >ground while trying to find some way , somehow, that some day maybe you
> >can out do me and the WKPP. It can not be done. Unlike the rest of you,
> >I go the be best with my hat in my hand to learn, and I take that to the
> >bank. We've been there , done that.
> >
> >Face the facts: we are the best in the business, and you can learn from
> >that, or you can continue to run up the body count trying to get around
> >it. The track record of tech diving is horrible, the track record of the
> >WKPP under my direction is awesome. When all of you figure out why,
> >everyone's track recod will be awesome. Figure it out.
> >
> >
> >Dell Motes wrote:
> >>
> >> Pucker up, pretty boy ;-) We dive the appropriate gas for the dive, which
> >> means anything below 130 or so and we're doing mixed gas. I prefer helium
> in
> >> stuff even shallower because I get better results and less symptoms for
> the
> >> long/working dives.
> >> Why drag Lamar into your petty war with each other ??
> >> The thing that cracks me up about all this bullshit bravado about mixed
> gas
> >> is that it is just bullshit bravado. Its the deco gasses that are killing
> >> people, not the "mixed gas" as everyone likes to call it. In my opinion
> if
> >> your taught anything more than air diving, you should be taught the whole
> >> enchilada. Nitrox,Tri-mix and whatever else someone wants to breath. We
> dive
> >> with the MOD in 3 inch letters, because it works. I haven't seen Tom tell
> >> anyone not to use 3 inch letters either. In fact I've seen him concur.
> >> However, I don't have a clue as to what the IANTD stickers look like
> >> presently. They do have access to the removable sleeves I made last
> >> year,(that we currently produce) with MOD and the most popular depths
> silk
> >> screened on them. There is one for oxygen also. Tom already mentioned
> this.
> >> If Bob McGuire had been diving this way, I would not have had to watch
> him
> >> get killed and get myself injured in the process of trying to get him off
> a
> >> runaway scooter before he broke his neck. If he had stickers OR paint, I
> >> would have seen it. He had identical, new white aluminum cylinders with
> >> G250s and a small piece of tape on the neck of each. If he had his regs
> >> numbered and on the wrong cylinders, then no one could have helped him.
> Bob
> >> killed Bob, nobody else. He showed me and his dad the way you guys marked
> >> cylinders the weekend before he died. Then chose not to do it himself for
> >> reasons unknown.
> >> George, we may not do the constant deep caves that you guys do, but we
> dive
> >> the most efficient gas for any dive we do. That includes helium for about
> >> half the cave dives and all the deep wrecks. The wrecks are all 200ft
> plus
> >> with some below 300ft on the schedule and a huge one in 400 plus that I'm
> >> doing the logistics on now.
> >> So, should I tell Lamar you and Tom are going to New York  ;-)
> >> Dell Motes
> >> Dive Rite
> >> 117 W.Washington St.
> >> Lake City, Fla. 32055
> >> www.Dive-Rite.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >> Cc: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Ken Sallot <sallot@mi*.co*>; Nanci
> >> LeVake <nlevake@pi*.co*>; techdiver@aq*.co*
> >> <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 7:33 AM
> >> Subject: Re: A Dead Skunk: The growing stink of Bottle Marking
> >>
> >> >Tom, to read either your posts or your standards would require a
> >> >special Evelyn Woods Dislextic Speed reading class. The fact is your
> >> >bottle scheme is ridiculous in every way, a real mess. The fact is that
> >> >nobody will adhere to this convoluted mess beyond the first attempt- it
> >> >is too confused.
> >> >
> >> >  Your efforts to gooberize a simple situation tell a lot about where
> >> >your real intersts lie.
> >> >
> >> >  You have a board of advisors who know nothing of this subject. Many of
> >> >these guys have yet to do their first gas dive, yet you claim them as
> >> >"experts". The WKPP has the unmatched man dives and track record that
> >> >say they do know this subject. Neither you nor any of your "board" has
> >> >made any effort to seek that information or find out why they do what
> >> >they do . This is inexcusble.
> >> >
> >> >  I saw your private post to Bill Mee calling me a "dictator". This is
> >> >your usual bullshit. The fact is we have 158 members who agree with our
> >> >standards and practice them all over the world . They do so because
> >> >those of us who developed them can explain them and have it make sense -
> >> >something you can not do with your "standards". We have all seen the
> >> >results of the personal preference crap at Wakulla - three accidents and
> >> >a death. You could say we have 158 "dictators", because none of us will
> >> >put up with bullshit like that.
> >> >
> >> >I saw you mention one of your BOA as "knowing as much about this as we
> >> >do". Specificly Lamar Hires. While I have the "utermost respect for Mr.
> >> >Lamar" ( to boroow from Bill "Farm Animal" Rennaker ), when Lamar Hires
> >> >does his first gas dive, I will kiss your ass in Macy's window. This is
> >> >what I mean - you are full of baloney.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Tom Mount wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Obviously you do not read all the post
> >> >> the MOD sticker does have 3 inch high letters on it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Respectfully yours,
> >> >> Tom Mount
> >> >> CEO IANTD World HQ
> >> >> http://www.iantd.com
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Nanci LeVake <nlevake@pi*.co*>
> >> >> To: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>;
> >> Ken
> >> >> Sallot <sallot@mi*.co*>; kirvine@sa*.ne*
> <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >> >> Cc: techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
> >> >> <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> >> Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 8:52 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: A Dead Skunk: The growing stink of Bottle Marking
> >> >>
> >> >> >I think Tom is missing a huge business opportunity.  What if IANTD
> >> _made_
> >> >> >new IANTDish MOD stickers?  They could be cool nitrox-y colors,
> oriented
> >> >> >horizontally with 3 inch numerals, but the important thing is that
> ALL
> >> >> >IANTD divers would be required to change their bottle marking
> stickers
> >> to
> >> >> >the new IANTD standard!    Those who couldn't dedicate two or three
> >> >> >aluminum 80s as stage bottles would have to buy even more stickers so
> >> they
> >> >> >could cover up the old stickers.  It would make thousands!!!!!  It's
> so
> >> >> >simple.  I don't know why someone didn't think of this sooner!  I've
> >> solved
> >> >> >the problem of IANTD tank marking!!!!!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >At 04:52 PM 4/29/99 -0400, Bill Mee wrote:
> >> >> >>Tom,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>LIke a dead skunk in the road, the subject of bottle markings gets
> >> flatter
> >> >> >>and flatter, but the stink just won't go away. I have patiently read
> >> >> through
> >> >> >>your bottle marking standards.  Colored Regulator Jackets and flaky
> >> little
> >> >> >>peel off MOD stickers just do not cut it. The argument has been made
> to
> >> >> you
> >> >> >>politely, impolitely, nastily, obnoxiously and just about every
> other
> >> way
> >> >> >>possible, yet the most obvious solution to the problem still is
> >> missing.
> >> >> It
> >> >> >>is inconcievable that you don't understand the rationale and logic
> >> behing
> >> >> >>the 3" MODs on either side of gas bottles.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>My question is the following: What gives? You must a have a very big
> >> >> problem
> >> >> >>with this method or otherwise you would have incorporated it into
> your
> >> >> >>standards a long time ago.  There must be a good reason for not
> doing
> >> >> this.
> >> >> >>Maybe the reason is a private one and cannot be answered in public
> for
> >> >> >>reasons of liability or economics.  Fine, then plead the fifth.
> >> Anyway,
> >> >> I
> >> >> >>think you owe everyone out here a reasonable explanation for what it
> is
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>you cannot accept about this method.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I am not trying to be sarcastic and a wise guy here.  I am just very
> >> >> curious
> >> >> >>as to what the extreme prejudicial reason is for your finding double
> >> sided
> >> >> >>3" MODs less acceptable than scotch tape and colored regulator
> >> jackets.
> >> >> >>This is a fair question and since you are already out here in the
> midst
> >> of
> >> >> a
> >> >> >>discussion on this public forum, in the capacity of director of the
> >> >> largest
> >> >> >>technical diving organization on earth, you are fair game.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Best regards,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Bill
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >> >> >>To: Ken Sallot <sallot@mi*.co*>; kirvine@sa*.ne*
> >> >> >><kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >> >> >>Cc: bdi@wh*.ne* <bdi@wh*.ne*>; William J Turbeville II
> >> <bturbo@ga*.ne*>;
> >> >> >>techdiver@aq*.co* <techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com
> >> >> >><cavers@cavers.com>
> >> >> >>Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 9:22 AM
> >> >> >>Subject: Re: Fatality at Die Polder III
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>Ken
> >> >> >>>It is not just color coding however as any photography can tell you
> >> and
> >> >> you
> >> >> >>>can prove by looking there are colors such as green, yellow and
> pink
> >> that
> >> >> >>>are still visible at depth regardless of ROY G BIV. They are less
> >> >> brilliant
> >> >> >>>but still seeable but the point is not the color it is they state
> >> oxygen
> >> >> 0r
> >> >> >>>deco gas I or Nitrox is highly visible wording. so they are
> readable
> >> to
> >> >> all
> >> >> >>>and identify the gas type and in deco gas and Oxygen state mod on
> >> them,
> >> >> >>>Second the contents tape is readable to the diver, third the MOD is
> >> >> >>readable
> >> >> >>>to all, fourth the mountpeice wrap is completely noticeable as you
> >> cannot
> >> >> >>>breat around it.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Please remove me from your CC list
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Respectfully yours,
> >> >> >>>Tom Mount
> >> >> >>>CEO IANTD World HQ
> >> >> >>>http://www.iantd.com
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>>From: Ken Sallot <sallot@mi*.co*>
> >> >> >>>To: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >> >> >>>Cc: bdi@wh*.ne* <bdi@wh*.ne*>; Tom Mount
> <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>;
> >> >> >>>William J Turbeville II <bturbo@ga*.ne*>; techdiver@aq*.co*
> >> >> >>><techdiver@aq*.co*>; cavers@cavers.com <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> >> >>>Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 8:00 AM
> >> >> >>>Subject: Re: Fatality at Die Polder III
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>>Even your typical Openwater 1 student should be able to tell you
> that
> >> >> >>>>color coding things is stupid if for no other reason then ROYGBIV.
> >> Next
> >> >> >>>>we'll hear about how the students should sniff the gases to
> determin
> >> the
> >> >> >>>>proper amount of oxygen in the mix.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Billy , this is what happened with Jane ORensten - not only did
> >> they
> >> >> >>>>> have no idea what was in the tanks by looking at them, they
> never
> >> even
> >> >> >>>>> noticed she was breathing the wrong one based on the side
> bullshit
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>>>> Mount subscribes to ( and actually REQUIRES instructors to do if
> >> you
> >> >> can
> >> >> >>>>> believe that ), and they did not notice that the colored regs ,
> >> poodle
> >> >> >>>>> jackets and the rest of the claptrap was wrong.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>--
> >> >> >>>>"What's terrible is to pretend that the second-rate
> >> >> >>>>is first-rate."
> >> >> >>>>                      -- Doris Lessing
> >> >> >>>>                       (British writer)
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >> >> >http://www.pipeline.com/~nlevake/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >

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