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<html> Michael,<br> <br> Just for the record I wish to make it clear to you and any others on the list who don't know, I am not and never have been a member of the WKPP. In fact, I have had a few disagreements with George on this list and the tech divers list in the past. Moreover, on all but one<b> minor </b>point I was wrong in arguing with George and the WKPP's position.<br> <br> With that said I would like to respond to your answers your questions.<br> <br> 1. If you do not dive my way, you cannot dive with me either. I WILL NOT get into the water with a diver who is improperly geared for the dive and conditions!!! PERIOD!!! If you chouse to dive with the first diver who stumbles along, regardless of his gear configuration, attitude or ability, that is you choice and will lead you along a predictable path to harm or death. I will not loose sleep over your death.<br> <br> 2. Some WKPP members have done more to raise awareness on the topic of gear rigging that any other person or group ever. Despite the fact that all they have ever received in return is grief. Yet they still provide the information FREE to anyone who is willing to ask!! What have you added??<br> <br> 3. George has made the scooters available for a long time. The only restriction was that you not try to copy it or make it available to anyone who would. Do you think that is unreasonable? <br> <br> Incidentally, when I first met George in person, at his home, he was kind enough to show me around his workshop in his garage. Not only did he show me the finished product but also he described the construction and fabrication methods of the scooters and each of the component parts. His openness and hospitality was top notch all the way. He hid nothing and answered every question without hesitation.<br> <br> 4. Electronic rebreathers are sure death and no WKPP member has ever use one on a WKPP dive that I have ever heard of. My understanding is that George was talked into looking at a few rebreathers over the years. Each of them was JUNK so George refused to dive with them. When the Halcyon came on to the market G. looked at that one as well. It is an impressive and safe unit when used properly by PROPERLY trained divers. Arguably (or not so arguably) it is the best unit on the market. Do you junk gear, which is ill-suited for the dives you do??<br> <br> 5. I am aware of deaths, which George also has knowledge of, in which George has not commented. Not every death is the death of an "asshole". Not every one who survives is not an "asshole". Although MOST deaths do involve "assholes" in one way or another, buddies, instructors and those who try to cover up the fact for example. In many cases, those who survive are the scums who bring death and misinformation to those who trust them. Better than 99% of diver deaths are caused by someone who did not follow the rules that were taught to them. Are you one of those who think you can dive air to 500' feet and live? You may wish to talk to Nick C. about that..... On second thought Nick may be a bit hard to get a hold of these days, he died preparing to break the world record for a deep air dive. Its to bad too, he was a very nice man. I have some video taken of me while I was wearing on of his fins. He loaned it to me when I broke a fin-strap on the boat. He knew what he was doing and accepted the risk. Foolish, perhaps. Asshole, not on your life!!<br> <br> 6. George has told me everything I have ever asked of him. If I were him, I would have told the Wak 2 boys even less. Since when is the WKPP obligated to provide information to a bunch of blowhards anyway??? The fact that the Wak 2 project was not given everything on a silver platter may well have saved lives!!! Can you imagine how bad thing could have been if all they had to do was follow a line. Christ they killed one with out ever getting to the 6K mark. How may would have died if they followed a line to 18K???<br> <br> 7. If someone cut a line in a cave before I went in, I think I would grab the big reel I carry and go for a cave dive. What would you do pout and go home??? (see my response to item #1 above) In my cavern course my instructor made sure that I knew how to run a reel before he signed my C-card.<br> <br> 8. On this one, you are so off target it is not even funny. The fact is that much of it has been posted publicly. Again, George has spent a great deal of time discussing this topic with me personally. I admit that I still do not have as good a grasp of the topic as I would like. However, between the reading I do and the information George gave me I feel that I am light years ahead of where most divers are.<br> <br> When acquiring knowledge one must be able to perform several tasks in order for the information to be of any benefit. If any step in the process is skipped, the information becomes useless. I think I can help you with this so I will outline the steps needed to make use of acquired knowledge.<br> <br> 1.) Perception. You must recognize the value of the information (be able to separate the shit from the shinola)<br> <br> 2.) Conception. You must recognize the topic to which the PERCIVED information applies.<br> <br> 3.) Integration. You must be able to combine facts and theories in a way that improves the understanding to the CONCEPT noted in step<br> <br> 4.) Application. This is the step in which the INTAGEATED data is used.<br> <br> I am just guessing that you are having a little trouble with step #1, perception. It is not that the information has not been presented but rather that you simply still have a problem with the previously mentioned separation process.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> At 11:31 AM 3/25/99 , Michael Fisch wrote:<br> >The question was raised: What has the WKPP done for cave diving, and<br> >technical diving?<br> ><br> >Here are some answers:<br> ><br> >1. If you do not dive my way you cannot dive with me.<br> >2. Some WKPP members have done a good job showing others how to rig<br> >gear, commendable.<br> >3. I have the best scooter, and you cannot see or buy one like it<br> >without joining my club. This has now changed since the WKPP now needs<br> >money.<br> >4. Rebreathers are sure death and no WKPP member will ever use one,<br> >untill George got talked into trying one out. Suddenly they were the<br> >best thing since sliced=A0 bread, but only the kind George likes.<br> >5. Any time someone dies on an extended risk dive suddenly he/she <br> >is/was an asshole, idiot and fool according to some WKPP members on the<br> >list. Whose wife was it who learned that her husband was dead after<br> >reading Georges postings about the dead idiot on the list?<br> >6. What a nice bunch of people who either will not tell you anything<br> >about a cave, or even worse will give only misleading information about<br> >its passageways.<br> >7. What would you do if I cut the line in a cave before you dived in it?<br> >And then lied about doing it. No wonder USDCT is pissed off at George.<br> >8. The WKPP has an excellent Decompression algorithim the can cut hours<br> >of decompression time and reduce the risks of getting an O2 hit. I<br> >really like the amount of information available about it to non-WKPP<br> >members -NONE.<br> ><br> ><br> >What a nice bunch of People! With an attitude like that they should be<br> >working for the IRS or someone else who can appreciate their endearing<br> >human nature.<br> ><br> >Michael Fisch<br> ><br> >Scott Landon wrote:<br> >>FUCK YOU!!!<br> ><br> >>when you are qualified to do anything this team does, from the newest<br> >>FNG to the lead exploration divers, come back and play.=A0 until then, go<br> >>back to your mother's teat and apron strings.=A0 it is miserable scum like<br> >>you that drags down diving.=A0 should we start a tabulation of all of the<br> >>things you have done for cave and/or technical diving versus all of the<br> >>things the wkpp has done?=A0 i will.=A0 here it is.<br> >><br> >>wkpp=3Dnumeris<br> >>fisch=3DZERO.<br> ><br> ><br> >>>From: Michael Fisch <michael.fisch-elektronik@ba*.de*><br> >>>To: cavers@cavers.com<br> >>>Subject: WKPP Members =3D Roadkill<br> >>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:45:29 +0100<br> >>><br> >>>After having read postings on this list for the last few years, I have<br> >>>formed my opinions about WKPP members and have ony one question left:<br> >>><br> >>> Is being in the same catagory as ROADKILL a requirement to<br> >>> become a member of the WKPP?<br> >>> or<br> >>> Do members of the WKPP, after having experienced a profound<br> >>> conversion upon encountering their first PC, automatically<br> >>> become ROADKILL?<br> >>> or<br> >>> Are people that are the end result of generations of inbreeding<br> >>> ( for the uninitiated that means jumping over a broomstick with<br> >>> first or second cousins or other relatives) in the hot Florida<br> >>> sticks, and have access to a computer the only subhumanoids<br> >>> selected for membership in the WKPP?<br> >>><br> >>>If any of you can understand the question and would like to attempt an<br> >>>explanation in words over 4 letters long I4d be interested.<br> >>><br> >>>If there are actually any nice people that are members of the WKPP I4d<br> >>>like to hear of it, but from the tone of the postings since 1995 I<br> >>>don4t remember any.<br> >>><br> >>>If you want to prove how stupid and obnoxious you really are,<br> >>>I4ll be there for the NSS/CDS Memorial Day=20 get-together.<br> >>><br> >>>Michael Fisch<br> >>><br> >>>Class Action Lawsuits are impossible - the membership of the WKPP<br> >>>doesn4t<br> >>>own a suit, they put all their money in white vans since white sheets<br> >>>went<br> >>>out of style in the 704s.<br> >>><br> >>>One nice thing about WKPP members - they have clean front yards since<br> >>>they<br> >>>had to sell their collections of rusting pickup trucks for a<br> >>downpayment<br> >>>on the white vans.<br> >>><br> >>>WKPP members are of one mind concerning gear selection. Is this because<br> >>>they<br> >>>collectively only have one mind?<br> >>><br> >>>The Florida Department of Education is considering a special program<br> >>for WKPP<br> >>>members and other disadvantaged white males, to help them learn to<br> >>>speak<br> >>>and<br> >>>eventually write in complete sentences, at least to the 6th Grade<br> >>level.<br> >=20 <BR> Bill (aquadart) Bott </html>
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