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Fisch, As someone who has been lurking on this list and some others for a long time, and as a non-member of the WKPP, I can tell you that Trout is right about all you have to do is ask and you will get a sensible answer. My gear is set up the way that it is because it makes sense and because it was shown to me pointedly and patiently why the configuration works, this after most of the problems that the gear setup solves, had occurred to me at one point or another. I cave, not to set records, not to glorify myself to others, but as a release from all the other diving crap that I deal with. You would think that after working a very fun filled week of managing a dive store, yes I am store scum, teaching for the store, teaching diving for a community college, and diving under boats in marinas, that the last thing that I would want to do is climb into this heavy ass gear and go into water filled holes in the ground any chance I get, but that is what helps me keep my head straight. When I am confused about something, I ask questions, I get straight answers and I get answers based on real world experience not what the book says, answers that work, because they have been tried. Asking questions makes life so much simpler, and a few thousand feet back in a system, is no time to be trying to re-invent the wheel. Keith BTW, I asked about the deep stops for O2 and cutting deco and I got an answer. Jesse Armantrout wrote: > slow day at the office, a big lunch that has me feeling sluggish and it is > raining. So what the hell, I'll play. See below. > > ---------- > > From: Michael Fisch <michael.fisch-elektronik@ba*.de*> > > To: cavers@cavers.com > > Subject: RE: WKPP Members = Roadkill > > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 10:31 AM > > > > The question was raised: What has the WKPP done for cave diving, and > > technical diving? > > > > Here are some answers: > > > > 1. If you do not dive my way you cannot dive with me. > > Yes, that is rule number 1. You may be the single greatest testimony as to > why it is enforced. Our safety record seems to indicate it is working. > > > 2. Some WKPP members have done a good job showing others how to rig > > gear, commendable. > > Yes, also there have been numeris videos and countless workshops plus a few > gigabytes woth of e-mails on the subject. > > > 3. I have the best scooter, and you cannot see or buy one like it > > without joining my club. This has now changed since the WKPP now needs > > money. > > Nobody has ever been denied a scooter including Bill Stone. I have over > $20,000 invested in dive gear and an insulted at your accusation. The > profit from scooters is for the ever growing fleet of safety scooters that > the WKPP maintains. But then discussing safety with you would be like > trying to teach pigs to sing. > > > 4. Rebreathers are sure death and no WKPP member will ever use one, > > untill George got talked into trying one out. Suddenly they were the > > best thing since sliced bread, but only the kind George likes. > > You need to reread all of the posts. Rebreathers are still sure death and > WKPP members are still terrified of them. If you have to ues one, why not > use the least deadly? Again, reference the safety records. > > > 5. Any time someone dies on an extended risk dive suddenly he/she > > is/was an asshole, idiot and fool according to some WKPP members on the > > list. Whose wife was it who learned that her husband was dead after > > reading Georges postings about the dead idiot on the list? > > This has been beat to death. How would you describe a fatality that occurs > trying to break a deep air record? > > > 6. What a nice bunch of people who either will not tell you anything > > about a cave, or even worse will give only misleading information about > > its passageways. > > Excuse me? I believe that comment heard from the usdct was "the WKPP map > is amazing accurate." > > > 7. What would you do if I cut the line in a cave before you dived in it? > > And then lied about doing it. No wonder USDCT is pissed off at George. > > Uh, who put in the line that supposedly got cut? If it is my line, can't I > pretty much do whatever I want to it? It is a fairly common practice to > cut back lines to keep the less experienced from getting in over their > heads, so to speak. > > > 8. The WKPP has an excellent Decompression algorithim the can cut hours > > of decompression time and reduce the risks of getting an O2 hit. I > > really like the amount of information available about it to non-WKPP > > members -NONE. > > Again, like the scooters, all you have to do is ask nicely and everything > we have will be made available to you. > > Chief, I am sorry you have a burr up your ass against George and/or the > WKPP, but, well, your arguments suck. Please feel free to try again, > though. You are the best advertisement FOR the WKPP way of doing things > since Annette Long claimed the only reason the WKPP was successful was > because of our equipment and our teamwork...DUH?!? > > Trout
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