Shattering...interesting choice of words.  That, tough guy, was the problem
with the AUL's...the bottom fell off.  The shitty connector was minor.

Peir (sic) pressure?  Yeah, right.  I choose the gear I am going to do cave
exploration at 300 feet deep and a mile and a half back based on peer
pressure.

An area you are very familiar with?  How?  How many of the gas divers have
you dove with?

I hope your lights are better than your logic.

Trout

----------
> From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; Jim Cobb
<cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
<m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> Subject: Re: Pictures
> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 3:03 PM
> 
> You mean the banana plug? earth shattering. So there was a need and Barry
> filled it, intro to business 101. Unless we're talking about a different
> Barry I doubt he's sorry he started making lights as a matter of fact I
> think one of the reasons Barry is so "vocal" about his light is he's
proud
> of his product and company. As far as all the WKPP using them ( an area
I'm
> very familiar with) I would call it peir pressure. Now if it was only a
wkpp
> product why the massive marketing attempt and rather blatant attempt at
> making your product better by running down everyone else's. When I bring
my
> lights out I'll send one to Barry to look at and evaluate before we start
> marketing them. As I'm proud of my product and I'm sure Barry would like
to
> be one of the first to see them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>; Jim Cobb
<cobber@ci*.co*>;
> Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co* <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Pictures
> 
> 
> >Let me rephrase that...
> >
> >AUL lights incorporated features that Barry Miller lights were using a
few
> >weeks after Barry began selling lights.  Better?
> >
> >The fact is, the only reason Barry began selling lights, something I am
> >sure he regrets, is because nobody was making a light the way many
members
> >of the WKPP wanted their lights made which was, by the way, the way
Gavin
> >made them.  Now, I believe all the lights being used by WKPP gas divers
are
> >either Gavin lights or Miller lights with the exception of George's one
> >NiCad.  This too is contrary to what the web page would have you
believe.
> >
> >Trout
> >
> >----------
> >> From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; Jim Cobb
> ><cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel
Therrien
> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:41 PM
> >>
> >> Barry's lights were copied by AUL what's this a time warp? I believe
all
> >> these lights are basically copies of another person's light. I believe
> >> barrys lights came out quite a bit after AUL's although he did make
some
> >> changes to them. Before anybody has stroke AUL did not design them
> >either.
> >> English engineering I think was the first.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry
<rat@ne*.co*>;
> >> Michel Therrien <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >> <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 2:34 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >>
> >>
> >> >Sorry, Jim, gotta call bullshit here.  I could care less what
language
> >> >anybody uses.  If the stuff works, I buy it.  But then, I like Eddie
> >Murphy
> >> >and George Carlin, too.
> >> >
> >> >Barry lights work.  And Barry is a great guy.  I am told that AUL
lights
> >> >now work fairly well since they copied Barry's lights.  The web page,
> >> >however is in the wrong.
> >> >
> >> >End of story.  Let's go back to talking about hose routing or upside
> >down
> >> >tanks or some other stupidity.
> >> >
> >> >Trout
> >> >
> >> >----------
> >> >> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> >> To: Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> >> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@cavers.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aq*.co*>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >> >> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 11:46 AM
> >> >>
> >> >> Hey, Barry, you were doing great until that last sentence. I don't
buy
> >> >> this "holier than though" stuff of yours, either.
> >> >>
> >> >> You know, generally speaking, it never ceases to amaze me how
> >> >> manufacturers or representatives come on to these public forums and
> >> >> proceed to directly or indirectly piss off or alienate the very
people
> >> >> upon whom their income depends.
> >> >>
> >> >> Like it your not you are one of these manufacturers and getting on
> >these
> >> >> lists with long profanity laced tirades is simply not a bright
thing
> >to
> >> >> do. For every person who supports you  there are ten or a hundred
who
> >> >> will take their business elsewhere.
> >> >>
> >> >> And a common saying in Marketing is "don't get mad, get even" my
boy,
> >if
> >> >> you get my drift (wink, wink, nod, nod).
> >> >>
> >> >>    Jim
> >> >>
> >> >> Sender: Miller, Barry  Date: 3/24/99 12:13 PM
> >> >>
> >> >> >Mr. Cobb,
> >> >> >   You could not be further from the truth. As a matter of fact,
your
> >> >view
> >> >> >seems to be in the minority. The day that you do something then
have
> >> >> >someone steal it will show a change of attitude, that is the day
you
> >do
> >> >> >something. It is very difficult to say anything without you and
your
> >> >> >friends throwing in the fact that I build equipment. I am not sure
> >where
> >> >> >you get that I am doing the marketing, maybe you need to go look
at
> >this
> >> >> >web page and tell us again who is doing the marketing. I am
speaking
> >as
> >> >an
> >> >> >individual trying to protect what is mine, while these "people"
are
> >> >using
> >> >> >my work to sell and promote their product. If one day I decide to
use
> >> >any
> >> >> >of my work to promote anything I do and you don't like it, then
you
> >can
> >> >> >also fuckoff.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Barry
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >At 10:59 AM 3/24/99 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
> >> >> >>Oh for Christs Sake, lets get real here. The reason that the
ratster
> >> >has
> >> >> >>his panties in a wad is the fact that this web site promotes AUL
> >> >products
> >> >> >>and not his gear. All this huff-and-puffery is just a smokescreen
> >and a
> >> >
> >> >> >>bunch of baby-like boo-hooing that, frankly, does not reflect
well
> >on
> >> >> >>Miller or his products.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>You are in the real world now, Miller, you need to start acting
like
> >a
> >> >> >>business professional and not a redneck hillbilly pickemuptruck
> >cowboy.
> >> >
> >> >> >>You need to take your marketing medicine like a man and quit
> >belaboring
> >> >
> >> >> >>the list with your whining.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>   Jim
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Sender: Michel Therrien  Date: 3/24/99 9:29 AM
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>Dear Pagefix, (who is Pagefix?)
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>I am not Barry's friend, nor a WKPP diver or affiliate.  I will
> >admit
> >> >that
> >> >> >>>I don't always like the attitude of some WKPP leaders.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>This said, the reason why I wrote the message is not to defend
> >> >Barry... it
> >> >> >>>is a question of principle.  I have no tolerance for pirating,
> >> >steeling and
> >> >> >>>unethical behavior such as taking someones material without his
> >> >permission.
> >> >> >>> I propably have this attitude because I worked in the software
> >> >industry (I
> >> >> >>>don't know).
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Is there a reason why you stay anonymous?  This is another thing
I
> >> >have
> >> >> >>>problem with... I guess.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Please note that the issue for me is not legal... it is ethical.
> >While
> >> >the
> >> >> >>>law may allow to copy someone's material for educative purposes,
I
> >> >don't
> >> >> >>>think this is honest.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Is it so hard to ask permission to use material PRIOR to using
it?
> >I
> >> >was
> >> >> >>>flattered that the NSS-CDS recently asked me to use some of my
> >> >pictures.
> >> >> >>>On the other hand, I would have been really pissed off if I saw
my
> >> >pictures
> >> >> >>>without any prior discussion about their use.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Michel Therrien
> >> >> >>>Montreal, Canada
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>PS: I know it is unethical to copy private messages in public
> >forums,
> >> >but I
> >> >> >>>started public and I think your answer may help the rest of the
> >crowd
> >> >to
> >> >> >>>understand your position.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>At 09:04 AM 3/24/99 EST, you wrote:
> >> >> >>>>Michel the video was given to one of our sponsors and we took
some
> >> >clips of
> >> >> >>>>it.  The law states that you can us this type of material as
long
> >as
> >> >you
> >> >> >are
> >> >> >>>>not selling it to make a profit.  We e-mailed Barry with an
> >apology
> >> >for the
> >> >> >>>>mistake and fixed the problem.  He didn't post that part on you
> >> >cavers list
> >> >> >>>>just the other parts that he wanted you to see.  The fact of
the
> >> >matter
> >> >> >is we
> >> >> >>>>would have agreed with what he asked but after the flaming he
gave
> >us
> >> >we
> >> >> >took
> >> >> >>>>a defensive posture.  What is wrong with him has he no respect
for
> >> >> >>>anything or
> >> >> >>>>one?  I am sorry if you want to punish AUL for Barry Millers
> >Flaming
> >> >and
> >> >> >Lies
> >> >> >>>>to us.  But if you feel like the only way to help Barry is
kicking
> >> >another
> >> >> >>>>company so be it.
> >> >> >>>>Most people don't use the language that Barry has used to a dog
> >but
> >> >if he
> >> >> >>>>wants to talk like that it a free country and God bless him.
> >> >> >>>>Please except our apologies for any misunderstanding and thanks
> >for
> >> >you
> >> >> >>>input.
> >> >> >>>>pagefix@ao*
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>--
> >> >> >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >> >`techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >> >> >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >> >`techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> Learn About Trimix at
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>  Learn About Trimix at
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aq*.co*'.
> >> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >`techdiver-request@aq*.co*'.
> >

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]