In looking at my Cis manual, if the diver dropped back down unconscious,
the automatic diluent valve would inflate the bag and probably get him
going back up again, making him hypoxic again in this situation, but
then the opv would cut loose and he would go back down a little .

Big question: where are buddies, where are safety divers, where are all
the personal preference, every man for himself strokes when this
happened?

After Jason Richard's brain death ( no , nothing to do with Cis Lunar)
and his susequent dive and acciddent, Stone said he was scheduling dives
"according to availablilty of support divers". Guess not.


Bill Mee wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> You obviously or purposely failed to understand my point which is that in
> cases of dive related deaths, particularly in hypoxia, the forensically
> determined cause of death may in fact be indistinguishable from “natural
> causes”.  In the case of the Henry Kendall death, he was using a Mk 5 Cis
> Lunar with the port selector block in the off position, thus preventing him
> from receiving oxygen. Chris Werner went to considerable lengths to politely
> explain these facts to you in his reply. If when we see the download from
> the device and it shows that he dropped to the floor of the sinkhole, which
> is a minimum of seventy to eighty feet, then this would explain a lot. At
> that depth the diluent is breathable for a while, but on ascent the
> subsequent preciptious drop in ppo2 would induce hypoxia immediately.
> Rebreathers are dangerous devices and as Richie Pyle and others have often
> stated, Complacency Kills. When someone dies while using a rebreather it is
> really foolish to try to argue that “natural causes” were responsible when
> it is so well established that rebreathers are death waiting to happen for
> the complacent or careless.  If in fact you are diving a rebreather and
> spontaneously perish from “natural causes”, of which heart failure is the
> only one that comes to mind (unlike say lung cancer), then you can make the
> rather strong argument that using the device in the first place was a
> serious “diver error” of judgement.
> 
> It is very amusing that you jumped right out into headlights upon my mention
> of the Atlantis rebreather.  I almost fell out of my chair laughing simply
> because almost everyone on this list knows that the Atlantis is a dangerous
> piece of garbage.  Defending this device is similar to defending “bungee
> wings” and square dive lights and other known defective designs. Since you
> are so obsessed with getting the facts out why don’t you address the points
> about the Atlantis that George made (points 1 – 4).  Also would you please
> tell us which of these points caused the “natural” brain damage to the
> British agent in Hawaii. This will be much more amusing than debating
> “causes of death” and in fact will be about as entertaining as listening to
> Clinton tell us that oral sex is not really sex.   While we can argue the
> pros and cons of established rebreather designs, such as the Mk 15, Mk16,
> the Prism, the Cis Lunar and even the newer technical designs such as the
> Inspiration, there is no argument that the Atlantis is a criminally
> dangerous toy.  In fact if the Atlantis was classified as a toy it would now
> be illegal in this country.
> 
> Go ahead Paul and make our day. We would thoroughly enjoy exposing this
> “cheeseball” and watching you dance like a possum skittering under an 18
> wheeler, while you try to convince us that the Atlantis deserves to be
> featured in the Smithsonian’s Hall of Technical Excellence. In fact the
> Atlantis should be prominently featured in the RonCo Hall of Fame along with
> the pocket fishermen and the vegomatic.
> 
> Bill
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Davis <Paul.Davis@dr*.ne*>
> To: wwm@sa*.ne* <wwm@sa*.ne*>
> Cc: rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 12:38 AM
> Subject: Natural Causes = What Next?
> 
> >Bill,
> >
> >You know I should have just let it pass by, but at least unlike many of
> >your group at least your tone was pleasant if not condescending so I
> >thought why not?
> >I do not want your apology, I am asking you once again for facts? Let's
> >discuss them on the list, please list facts but be sure you are right
> >first. I do not claim there
> >weren't any incidents, but I do have facts, lets see how good your
> >information is that you base these wild claims? I have researched every
> >incident, I have the
> >coronail enquiries on these and only one was listed as natural causes. So,
> >if I honestly fail to know a lot of things, please enlighten me.
> >
> >
> >But I ask once again, if you are so sure about about the Wakulla incident
> >then I for one would be happy to listen to facts but if all you have is
> >innuendo's then let's
> >leave it there?
> >
> >By the way, please don't use the informed source line again
> >Paul Davis
> >
> >
> ><Bill Mee wrote>
> >Paul,
> >
> >I am very sorry for mentioning the Atlantis.  It is a perfect example of a
> >fine semi-closed rebreather. No one has ever been injured or killed while
> >using an Atlantis.
> >
> >Paul, you seem to "honestly" fail to know about a  lot of things including
> >the Wakulla incident. Should in the unlikely event someone find you
> >floating
> >belly up with an Atlantis on your back I surely hope that the medical
> >examiner concludes that it is from natural causes.
> >
> >Good luck Paul,
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >

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