Ya know, I started lurking on this list about three months ago and haven't
posted a damn thing.  I am in the learning mode and this list gives me great
advice/warnings/things to consider.

But a quick browse of the Gavin site brought forth the following
information.  Now, myself, who I do not consider farm animal stupid, would
take after reading this in the online owner's manual, to mean that there are
two different clutches available.

Like I said--I am just starting in this "diving" world and am glad I found
this list.  On the other hand Capt, Shit for Brains, why don't you shut the
hell up, take a double dose of Midol and quit bitching because your pussy
hurts. Some of us want to learn to Do It Right instead of hearing your
whining goatfucked crying ass.



See ya in the obits---sooner or later...You are bound to be a statistic.

Mickey



Clutches
We have been testing clutches and have found that there is no set number of
washers that work for any given combination of Arnold Jackson clutch and
motor. The shafts are different on different motors. The step in the
clutches is different for different clutches. What has to be done is that
you have to add enough washers to clear to top of the shaft, but just
barely. The clutch needs to slip easily; it needs to slip as soon as it
touches anything but water. There is no number of thick washer that will
work. You can check the thickness of the washers with a micrometer. They
need to be .024. The .032 washers are too stiff. Just one too many washers
will not allow the clutch to slip. The .032 are for the Mako clutch, which
slips far more easily and will wear out upon repeated slippage, whereas the
Arnold Jackson clutch is designed to slip any number of times. The
replacement Mako clutch costs about 4 bucks. The replacement Arnold Jackson
clutch costs about $120.

CHECK YOUR CLUTCH TO MAKE SURE IT WILL SLIP PROPERLY !!!
You must first check this on the bench with the relay bypassed or it will
fry the relay if the clutch does not slip.


  1.. Open the lid
  2.. Disconnect the positive lead from the motor to the relay, jumper that
leads to the battery.
  3.. Put a jumper on the gold pin in the black socket on the motor
compartment lid.
  4.. Hold the prop and touch the black jumper to the battery.
  It should slip instantly. If it grabs, start removing washers until it
does not grab.
  If you are a weenie, and if you have one of my rewinds, you are not going
to like it if it does not slip - consider yourself warned!
  If it does slip properly, or after you have put the washers so that it
slips properly, you are now safe to put it back together and put it in the
water to test again.
  5.. Make sure it will hold with full pitch and with fully charged
batteries.
  Grab it underwater and make it slip and be sure it will re-catch.

Sometimes it will ride on top of the plate and you just bump the trigger a
couple of times to get it to reseat. I keep mine so that they nearly slip
all the time, and anything that got into the prop, like cave line, would
instantly slip the clutch. To give you and idea of how it should be set, you
should be able to stick any body part in there with no worries. The Mako
needs to be kept more tight and not slipped intentionally.

Do not add back in more than one washer at a time or you will lock it up and
fry it. The other thing that happens, and this happened to me, is that if
you stall the motor just right, it will arc on the brushboard and then the
whole motor needs to be taken apart. To avoid this disaster, do your first
testing on the bench where just touching the lead to the battery momentarily
is all you do the first time. I was trying to see what would break and I
found out. It was interesting when I took the motor apart - it was dated
1988. It took me 14 years to have to take it apart.

If you do not have the right washers, you need to get them from Arnold
Jackson, or otherwise all of you get together and designate somebody to
order them and distribute them, or get them from whomever you got the Arnold
Jackson clutch from. While you are at it, throw away the Arnold Jackson
screws and put in 8-32 1 1/4" pan head Phillips screws.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
To: "George Irvine" <trey@my*.ne*>; "Duane Liptak Jr."
<dliptakjr@ea*.ne*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "'Quest@Gu*. Com'"
<quest@gu*.co*>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap parts?


> At 08:36 AM 8/10/02 -0400, George Irvine wrote:
> >JT, the "WKPP" clutch is a three part deal - an aluminum plate, a delrin
> >upper mating hub, and a delrin hub that goes over that to capture the
> >adjustable pitch assembly. They are very finicky and must be set to
maximum
> >slip or they will not slip at all.
>
> George, you may think I'm being hard to get along with , but I only want
> you to let the buyer have the option of which clutch he wants, is that to
> much to ask? You do not have this on your site when I last looked. Most
> will want the same thing you use, something wrong with that? None of us
> even knew there were other clutches and your site did not mention it.
> If the plastic clutches would have slipped on a serious dive or at some
> other time that would have caused unnecessary stress, lost dive, ect. they
> will not reset once they have slipped......we are 2 for 2 on that
> happening, I would have been real pissed. Our dives are real important to
> us, it may be just another sell to you, but our dives take a lot of time
> and money.
>
> I know Brad is talking to you about getting the delrin clutch, you told
him
> it was easy to install.
>
>
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
> >Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:39 PM
> >To: Duane Liptak Jr.; techdiver@aquanaut.com; 'Quest@Gu*. Com'
> >Subject: Re: Cheap parts?
> >
> >
> >Duane
> >I would have to take your word on the delrin clutch as being a pain in
the
> >ass we were not offered any others just the plastic ones and knew nothing
> >about the others. Both scooters only slipped once and would never reset
> >itself, I feel that the motors are so strong that they make the screw
> >loosen from the stops and starts. The screw is clockwise, once the clutch
> >slips the screw comes loose, we had one come completely off in the water
.
> >The Apollo is different the screw is counter clockwise and can only
tighten
> >and the clutch is SS a very good design. One guy has already ordered a
new
> >clutch from G and we will see what the deal is, I would also like to know
> >of any other clutches that are offered and where to get them, I would
like
> >to have a choice in kind and supplier.
> >
> >JT
> >
> >
> >      At 08:41 AM 8/9/02 -0500, Duane Liptak Jr. wrote:
> > >JT,
> > >     Bill Gavin had the $5 clutch on his scooter, and I had one on mine
for
> >a
> > >while.  The Oceanic clutch is a lot less likely to slip, even when you
want
> > >it to, but it will not hold up to repeatedly slipping.  The only reason
we
> > >use the other clutch is because we need the ability to slip and
re-engage
> > >the clutch repeatedly to get the job done in case the relay sticks on.
For
> > >what you guys are doing, it should have worked fine.  The plastic
clutch
> > >requires a lot less fussing with to set up, it should not slip unless
you
> > >want it to, or you plow furrows in the sand with it, and if you do slip
one
> > >bad enough to strip it, you can throw the damn thing away and put on a
new
> > >one for $5.  You can do this over 20 times before you would break even
on
> > >the other clutch.  The delrin clutch is a pain in the ass, dealing with
the
> > >supplier can be like cretin day at the goat rodeo, and I much preferred
the
> > >plastic clutch, but like I said, we need the ability to do the infinite
> > >slipping.
> > >     You guys got the first of a batch of experimental scooters.  If it
> >were
> > >me, I would have expected to work closely with the builder to sort out
the
> > >details.  These things were built for what you guys wanted, and you had
> > >about the best opportunity possible to get them refined to where they
> >suited
> > >your needs perfectly.  I think you would have been a lot happier with
the
> > >scooters and with the end result if some of that infamous pride got
> > >swallowed, and more questions were asked.  :-)
> > >
> > >Duane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
> > >To: "Duane Liptak Jr." <dliptakjr@ea*.ne*>;
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>;
> > >"'Quest@Gu*. Com'" <quest@gu*.co*>
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 5:08 PM
> > >Subject: Re: Cheap parts?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Duane
> > > > So you really see no problem with him selling Gavins with parts in
them
> > > > that he does not even use in his own. The scooters are said to be
the
> > >best,
> > > > they are even advertised as having gold superconnectors, with all of
> >these
> > > > statements a 5 dollars plastic clutch is put in it and sent to the
> >buyer.
> > > > You telling me that's OK with you, did he do it to you? I saw
nothing on
> > > > the options page about a choice in clutches, only a mention in the
> >owners
> > > > manual part and it does not say anything in great detail about it,
only
> > >how
> > > > to set the clutch with the washers and such. No cost is found for it
in
> > > > pricing, unless someone who already knows this stuff tells you, you
buy
> > >the
> > > > scooter blind to this fact. Hopefully now everyone is aware of this
and
> > > > know what to ask for.......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    At 11:20 PM 8/7/02 -0500, Duane Liptak Jr. wrote:
> > > > >The whole Gavin maintenance deal is really simplified once you
> >understand
> > > > >that the things are virtual tanks, if anything IS wrong, it's
probably
> > > > >something that the operator screwed up because they didn't know how
it
> > > > >worked, and that if there is a problem, ask Trey, without TELLING
him
> > >what
> > > > >you think the diagnosis should be.  Cotton in the appropriate
place, if
> > > > >necessary.  He'll of course know exactly what the problem is, and
> >you'll
> > >be
> > > > >back on the trigger in no time.  The only problem I've really had
with
> > >mine
> > > > >is wearing out blades by diving the shit out of them.  I, of
course,
> > >thought
> > > > >that I had screwed something up, but a phone call to Trey, new
blades a
> > > > >couple of days later, and viola...back in the saddle.
> > > > >
> > > > >Duane
> > > > >
> > > > >Subject: RE: Cheap parts - video? RE: Cut to the chaseRE: VBTech
vs.
> >Nova
> > > > >Tech
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I had a few problems with the reed in mine. I was told by JT
(the
> > >other
> > > > > > JT) that George was using the new more expensive reed because of
> > > > > > pressure from customers who were being swayed by the fact that
> >Rodney
> > > > > > uses a quality reed whereas George's old scooters just used a
cheap
> > > > > > Radio Shack one, even though the cheap one worked fine. But
> >apparently
> > > > > > the more expensive one is more finicky so, on Jim's advice
(relayed
> > >from
> > > > > > George) I threw it away and replaced it with the cheap one - no
more
> > > > > > problems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And George was nothing but helpful in getting the problems
sorted
> > >out -
> > > > > > even sending me a free replacement relay when I insisted that I
> > >thought
> > > > > > the problem was in there (George said it would be the reed from
the
> > > > > > start - should've listened).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jim
> > > > > > > I will not say the scooters are not fun and do not get the job
> >done.
> > > > > > What
> > > > > > > happen was 2 of the scooters would stick on or not come on.
George
> > > > > > said to
> > > > > > > rotate the reed switch, this worked for one. The other would
still
> > > > > > stick
> > > > > > > on, I told the guy he had a bad switch or something. We also
found
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > latch was placed right over the switch and if you unclipped it
the
> > > > > > scooter
> > > > > > > would finally cut off. The only thing we could figure was that
the
> > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > from the latch was distorting the reed switch. The guy email
this
> >to
> > > > > > > George
> > > > > > > and George pounded him on "How the hell is the water pressure
> >doing
> > > > > > that",
> > > > > > > some kind of communication break down happened and the guy
didn't
> > >want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > get pounded by G again, so I told him to just tell G to send
> >another
> > > > > > > switch
> > > > > > > and just pay for it. That fixed the problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The clutches are a separate issue, I do not think anyone knew
they
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > getting a cheap clutch or that there was a different one that
G
> > >uses.
> > > > > > All
> > > > > > > the guys saw was the one that Cobb got and it worked fine, the
> > > > > > following
> > > > > > > ones had minor problems, one ran backwards....... I did not
even
> > >know
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > the scooters needing a better clutch and one would think that
G
> > >would
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > even offer them to anyone with less than the best parts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Rodney no longer puts the slower motor in his because of the
> > >posting
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > put out on how slow Christina's was. Now the buyer will only
get
> >the
> > > > > > best
> > > > > > > and does not have an option, G needs to do the same thing so
the
> > >buyer
> > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > not feel short changed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
in
> > >the
> > > > water"
> > > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> > > >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > > > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> >water"
> >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> >Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> >
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> water"
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>

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