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Michelle, I'm not going to keep answering you because the truth is to much for you to bare, nor will I answer everyone who wants to pop up with a bullshit post. But listen to the plain truth, I'm a blunt kinda guy and tell the truth . Every company who sells a product will say nearly the same thing about their product..........you can bet your ass they ain't going to say "we have the worst product and it is unsafe", please buy from us. I'm really sorry for his death and your pain, families must accept the fact that divers who engage in high risk diving accept the risk. It should be a family decision and everyone should be informed. and have a nice day At 03:41 PM 3/19/03 +0000, Michelle wrote: >On 19 Mar 2003 07:43:20 -0000 Michelle <lisa3@ch*.co*> wrote: >JT Don't tell me not to post, hten ask me questions. I have just as much >right to post as anyone else. > >Perhaps you should cast your mind back. Paul was the very first fatality, >the unit had only been on the market a few weeks. At that point in time >no-one had any idea just how many other users were to subsequently have >problems and how serious those problems were, if we had he would not have >been using the unit. > >He had had problems with the original unit. When this unit could not be >proplerly set up to dive then he did not use it. The replacment had, on >every occasion tried, appeared to be working correctly. Paul had been >reasured by a previously reputable manufacturer that there were not major >problems with the units. We are not talking about some home-brew here. > > >Paul bought the unit in an attempt - as it was marketed, to make diving >safer. He did not buy it to extend bottom times - as is so widely >remarked. He bought it so that he would never be at risk of an out of air >situation. He had his bail out and dived to this bail out capability. > >The unit was sold as a safe peice of equipment, by a previously reputable >manufacturer. I think the figures now speak for themselfes, let alone the >countless failures that happened and continue to happen since Paul's death. > > > >On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:45:03 -0500 Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> wrote: >I was a little dismayed at his post directed at Michelle. Death is a >terrible thing, the loss of your loved one effects different people >different ways. Getting something (anything) off your chest helps deal >with the grief. If Michelle felt that posting to the 700 odd people on >this list about her husbands death will help her deal with the loss >then I think that is a good thing. > > But I see what JT's point is. When I first started techdiving, I had >my life insurance policy squared away, a comprehensive will & testament >and all my bank accounts and titles and mortgages with my wife's name. >I'm no fool, I knew what I was getting into. Then the kids came along >and the really changed things. My wife asked me some hard questions >about my sport, which got me thinking. And tech diving is a high risk >sport of which part of the fun is the risk, like sky diving, mountain >climbing or motorcycle driving. > >And none of these sports are appropriate for a family man, at least a >responsible one. Throwing in a rebreather, especially one with the >track record of the buddy desperation, to me really indicates a person >who's loved ones and family came second to their love of defying death. >Michelle you must have know this. > >I have to tell you that even if I was single, in debt and with a Mafia >contract on my head, I would not use a buddy desperation or any other >rebreather for that matter. Open circuit is KISS and there is no need >for 99% of the divers, even hard corps tech divers, to waste their >money on these things. Electronic rebreathers are toys for rich >technogeeks who want to one-up their diving buddies and nothing more. > >All you wives or husbands out there who techdive really needs to get >your lives in order. If you have children shame on you if you take >unnecessary risks. Even if you don't you had better get your finances >cleared up and life insurance policies squared away. You need to take >responsibility for your actions. And this responsibility extends to the >people who's lives depend on folks who choose to live high-risk lives. >A lot of you people need to come to grips that techdiving in any >location is a high risk sport. Ask any insurance adjuster, they know. > >I hope Michelles post serves as a wakeup call to you knuckleheads out >there. Techdiving is one of those sports where you need to prepare for >long before you even start taking lessons, as the recent near death in >FL shows. You need to tell your loved ones about the risks involved and >prepare for them, doing otherwise makes me question your intelligence >and/or sanity. > > Jim > > >On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 05:44 PM, Capt JT wrote: > > > What I see with the families of divers who have died it always seems > > those that complain have never gotten involved with the victims > > lives/hobbies until they die and then it is to point the finger at > > something/anything other than the victim .............clearly for a > > human to place his head underwater and breath has some risk and should > > be considered somewhat unsafe. Lets look at the facts YOU > > state..........the unit had many problems, he knew this, you knew this > > and yet he chose to still dive it. To take a unit to breath underwater > > , even if it was working correctly is a risk. He did it knowing it had > > problems which is a much higher risk. Then you back this up by saying > > he is highly intelligent.........Michelle I am sorry for his death, > > but intelligent is not what I would call him. Stop posting. > > > > > > > > > > At 07:40 AM 3/18/03 +0000, Michelle wrote: > >> You think you are so big. Don't you think I have torchered myself a > >> million times looking for a way I could hahe stopped him using this > >> equipment now. > >> > >> How dare you try to blame Paul's death on me. > >> > >> Paul was highly inteligent and electronically and computer minded. He > >> was an IT expert. He also was an adult used to making his own >> choices. > >> > >> We discussed on a number of occasions the problems he had had with > >> his original unit. Numerous and often there seemed no obvious way to > >> relate them to each other. He watched the handsets like a hawk and > >> was meticulous in its mainanance. Unfortunately he also beleived that > >> when he had a replacement unit - after much heated discussion with > >> AP, this second unit appeared to be problem free and working as > >> expected. I have the email he sent to martin Parker stating the unit > >> now was working as expected - so it seemed. > >> He made a number of succesful dives on this second unit without > >> problem so put his original problems down to having been suplied 'a > >> lemon'. > >> > >> He had a great deal of respect for the unit and used it with great > >> caution. Obviously this was not enough. > >> > >> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:26:57 -0500 Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > >> wrote: > >> Michelle, I have only one question for you................Why did you > >> wait > >> until Paul died to get involved in what he was doing. quote "Paul had > >> had > >> no end of problems with the unit".......so you knew something was not > >> right. > >> > >> > >> At 09:04 PM 3/17/03 +0000, Michelle wrote: > >> >Hi George, > >> >You are so right. Paul thought he was helping with breakthroughs > >> when he > >> >particepated in the early trimix dives on the unit. Everyone on the > >> >inspiration site knew what he was doing, he and a dozen or so others > >> >discussed how they were using mix on the unit. Not a word of caution > >> from > >> >the manufacturers, they must have loved all the free research they > >> were > >> >getting done by Paul and the others. There was even a chamber dive > >> planned > >> >to further asess the performance of the unit on trimix. > >> >Then his accident and all of a sudded he was some kind of rogue and > >> the > >> >statement was that he died because he was using trimix. > >> >The unit is sold to be used with trimix and heliox, how did the use > >> of > >> >trimix kill him? We cannot see another diver related reason so lets > >> blame > >> >it on trimix. > >> >Paul did not die because he was using trimix but this was the get out > >> >initially used. There are plenty of people using trimix on the unit > >> now. > >> >Some very lucky people. > >> >Imagine, you have the full suport of your peers and are in freequent > >> >contact with the manufacturers detailing exactly what you are doing. > >> >Suddenly, you die whilst using one of these units and all that suport > >> >dissapears and you become some maveric doing things they would never > >> condone. > >> >Paul had had no end of problems with the unit so was extremely > >> cautious > >> >and meticulous whilst using it. Replacement scrubber lids and a > >> >replacement unit and numerous discussions with AP. > >> > > >> >How does it feel to be the widow? > >> >When the people your sole mate entrusted his life to abandon him and > >> use > >> >him as a scapegoat? They have a quote published in a magazine stating > >> >their sympathy for you when you can see nothing has been done to > >> rectify > >> >the situation, they do nothing and they act like nothing has hapened. > >> >When the daughter you bore after he died wishes on a star that she > >> could > >> >see her father. > >> >When your entire life has been thrown up in the air and slowly falls > >> back > >> >down to the ground shattering in to unrecoverable peices. > >> >When collegues at work dash in to a utility room when they see you > >> walking > >> >towards them in a corridoor because they just don't know what to say > >> to > >> >you. You feel like a leper. > >> >When people ask you 'hello, how are you?' ( normal, polite) you have > >> to > >> >say 'fine thanks' ( normal, polite) but inside you want to screem at > >> them > >> >for asking such a stupid question. How the hell do they think you > >> feel - > >> >but it is not their fault, they don't know how much that simple > >> question > >> >rips you apart. > >> >When you spend endless hours with his patents explaining, trying to > >> make > >> >some sense of it. No parent expects to loose their child. > >> >When you are evicted and your home is reposessed because you are not > >> named > >> >on the mortgage. The home you shared for almost a decade. > >> >When you sit every night in silence on the sofa desperate to hear > >> his keys > >> >in the door as he comes home to you. > >> >You hear about 15 more people loosing their life on the same unit but > >> >still no questions are asked. > >> >And all the time the one you love is being used as a scapegoat, > >> called an > >> >idiot by people who never met him, and every time you try to defend > >> him > >> >you are pushed off as an hysterical woman. You look deeper and > >> deeper and > >> >ask questions that no-one will answer. > >> >You have to listen to his reputation being ripped to shreds even > >> though > >> >you know what people are saying is wrong. > >> > > >> >Shall I go on, or do you get the impression? > >> >Martin Parker has spoken to me twice. Once at Paul's inquest where > >> he said > >> >'stuffy in there, isn't it' and once at Nic Gotto's inquest where he > >> tried > >> >to say hello as if we were old friends, and asked was I well, in the > >> most > >> >incredable upbeat maner, I was horrified and speachless. He seems to > >> have > >> >absolutely no concept. > >> > > >> >As for the other things I can tell you about their performance, how > >> about > >> >attempting to submit a graph ( of how long the loop could sustain > >> life) at > >> >a public inquest, which was massively innacurate but if it had been > >> >believed could have explained the pathologists findings. The graph's > >> >innacuracy was exposed and there was no other way AP could explain > >> the > >> >pathologist's findings. The pathalogical evidence that Paul had been > >> alive > >> >for some time, probably hours, following a hypoxic event. > >> > > >> >On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:04:43 -0500 George Irvine <trey@my*.ne*> > >> wrote: > >> >Lisa, this post of yours has brought out the usual suspects from the > >> Buddy > >> >Inspiration cheering section, who are about the same caliber of > >> mentality as > >> >you would expect to see at a cock fight. They are citing some web > >> links that > >> >contain examples of stupidity that are beyond the pale, but they see > >> them as > >> >fantastic accomplishments. > >> > > >> >Maybe you and the rest of the Buddy Inspiration widows can explain > >> to these > >> >morons what it really means to have your husband killed by a piece > >> of shit > >> >like Martin Parker, by the crap training out there, by the "every > >> man for > >> >himself" mentality of the tough guy Brits who seem to feel these > >> devices > >> >make them a real man, and by the very "accomplishments" ( read doing > >> stupid > >> >things and getting away with it) that they are so proud of. > >> > > >> >The funny thing is that they want to attack me over your post. Your > >> husband > >> >is dead along with countless others due to this piece of crap and the > >> >thinking that surrounds it, and we have some lame moron on here > >> telling me > >> >how superior these people are and how screwed up GUE is ( now he has > >> changed > >> >that to "DIR"). > >> > > >> >Maybe you can put some of the things you told me privately on here > >> and save > >> >some lives. While the idiots are well recognized by most of us a > >> idiots, you > >> >never know who you could prevent from suffering like you have. > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: Lisa [mailto:lisa3@ch*.co*] > >> >Sent: Thursday, March 10, 3707 12:58 AM > >> >To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> >Subject: Nic Gotto Inquest > >> > > >> > > >> >Cork City Coroner, Dr Myra Cullinane, last week recorded an open > >> verdict at > >> >the conclusion of the inquest into the death of Nic Gotto, Union > >> Hall, > >> >County Cork, who died in July 1998 whilst using the Buddy Inspiration > >> >Rebreather. The coroners court heard that Nic and some friends were > >> due to > >> >dive to the Kowloon Bridge wreck, just a few miles south of Glandore > >> harbour > >> >in County Cork, when the tradgy happened. Nic and his buddy entered > >> the > >> >water as normal and proceeded to the bow of the wreck at 9m. All was > >> well at > >> >thisstage, Nic was seen to have looked at his handsets and then > >> signalled Ok > >> >to his buddy. He indicated a direction for the dive to continue and > >> lead the > >> >way with his buddy following behind. The visibility was very poor > >> that day > >> >and Nic's buddy lost sight of him for a few minutes only able to > >> follow by > >> >using Nic's torch beam for direction. Within a few minutes the buddy > >> came > >> >upon Nic lying on his back with his mouthpiece out and having what > >> appeared > >> >to be a convulsion. His buddy immediately realised that Nic was in > >> trouble > >> >and attempt to rescue him. In the rescue attempt Nic's buddy lost > >> his own > >> >mouthpiece and weight belt and started to ascend. He made it to the > >> 9m mark > >> >and managed to alert another pair of divers that Nic was in trouble. > >> One of > >> >the other divers quickly found Nic and assisted him to the surface > >> where he > >> >was taken onboard the boat and CPR was administered for 45 minutes > >> after > >> >which time the Air Sea Rescue helicopter winched him on board and > >> flew him > >> >to hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival. The court heard > >> that > >> >Nic's rebreather was dropped during his rescue and was not recovered > >> for > >> >some days. On inspection the Buddy Inspiration Rebreather was found > >> to be in > >> >good working order and no alterations had been made to the kit. > >> There was a > >> >reading on both guages. Both handsets, when opened, were found to be > >> cracked > >> >and full of seawater. Nic had been seen to be having difficulties > >> >calibrating his equipment prior to getting on the boat. On the boat > >> prior to > >> >the dive, Nic dismantled and cleaned and re assembled his equipment, > >> >breathed from the unit and prepared to enter the water. It was noted > >> that no > >> >alarm was heard at anytime before, during and after Nic was brought > >> to the > >> >surface. Mr Hogan, the pathologist at Cork University Hospital, said > >> that > >> >Nic had suffered drowning after a metabolic event had occurred > >> leading to > >> >him losing consciousness, he said that it might have Hyperoxia or > >> Hycapnia. > >> >It was recorded that Nic had completed approx. 10 dives on the > >> equipment. As > >> >no one had witnessed Nic changing the scrubber canister the > >> manufactures, AP > >> >Valves, did make a submission that it might have been Hypercapnia > >> that lead > >> >to Nic's demise. Nic's widow Rachel was able to tell the court that > >> of two > >> >20kg drums of sofnalime at her house over half of one is gone. The > >> coroner > >> >seemed satisfied that this suggested that Nic had replaced the scruba > >> >contents. At the end of three days the Jury were directed to return > >> one of > >> >three possible verdicts, accidental death, death by misadventure and > >> open > >> >verdict. They returned the latter. > >> > > >> >During questioning, a witness who initially reported that Nic told > >> her the > >> >scrubber could last 10 hours, confirmed this 10 hours could well have > >> >related to the O2 cylinder duration and not the scrubber. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >My condolencies to Rachel, Nic's wife, and his three daughters, two > >> who are > >> >teenagers and one little girl who has never seen her father. > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > >> > >> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > >> in the > >> water" > >> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > >> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > >> Email captjt@mi*.co* > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > > in the water" > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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