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--=====================_12027331==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:45 PM 11/12/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote: >For anyone who wants to understand the kind of incidents like what >happened to a support diver on the Britannic trip I doubt you will tell it exactly like I was told by the guys who were there, but you do confirm with that statement something happened. Once again everyone can see I tell the truth. >o:captjt@mi*.co*] >Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:53 AM >To: joe@po*.co*; fltechdiver@mikey.net >Cc: vbtech@ci*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: Re: Lake Jocassee Project >>Joe >> You don't have a clue, the truth is, I tell the truth. I have exposed >> George many times, you and your group with the accident you guys tried >> to hide, the Bent diver on the Britannic was common knowledge among the >> real divers. Someone tried to tell it on the list soon after the trip >> and George pounded them. I got it straight from 2 of the horses mouth >> that were there and they told me in front of others in our group, so >> they know it's true. If you guys told the truth about your dives, we >> wouldn't even be posting to each other. >> >>The fact is this list is compiled of mostly novice divers and should be >>allowed to know that even the best have things happen on dives. So they >>can make a sound decision whether doing these kinds of dives are worth >>the risk for them. Only a select few that do real dives post, others like >>Dean and Joel should not even be diving, much less posting about it on a >>tech list. I exposed these guys long ago and they like you are trying to >>find a way to get back at me. LOL >> >>Try the best you can to get at me with the bullshit, but I get at you >>guys with the truth. My guys are telling me that someone put the question >>out on quest about the bent diver and Peter asked for it to be answered >>on here. THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING........ >>You're a small man with a small mind. Please tell George to keep his >>zipper up, you're getting out way to much. >> >>JT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 05:56 AM 11/11/02 -0500, joe@po*.co* wrote: >>>JT: >>> >>>I asked you why you were making fun of the people who used good >>>judgement and did not participate in your Lake Jocassee cluster fuck. >>> >>>Instead of defending your position, you proceeded to yap about anything >>>and everything, rather than answering a simple question of why you >>>belittled those who choose not to participate in your stupidity. >>> >>>Fact: You are an illiterate moron with no scruples or ethics. >>> >>>Fact: When caught in stupidity, you will do anything possible to divert >>>attention from it, especially trying to confuse the issue by making >>>disparaging remarks about those whose accomplisments you could never >>>approach. What ever transpired on the Britannic Expedition has nothing >>>to do with your continually setting a horrific example of how not to >>>conduct oneself in the dive community. Your likening yourself to the >>>Britannic team is beyond funny and comparing an alleged 490 foot, 2 man >>>sand dive to a legitimate expedition is ludicrous. >>> >>>I would also like to know what does an incident in Brazil have to do >>>with your stupidity in Lake Jocassee? I never cease to be amazed at >>>your inability to complete a thought. >>> >>>Another EXTREMELY disgusting thing about you is the way you gloat over >>>"another diver from the team would die diving solo in a cave". Does >>>this make you happy? >>> >>>Your version of the truth is not under scrutiny. No one really cares to >>>dispute it because it is not significant. What is significant is the >>>content of your dive stories. Specifically, your profound inability to >>>conduct a dive that does not become some form of a SNAFU, shall we >>>say. I hesitate to use CF again because I do not like to be >>>unnecessarily redundant, but there are not many phrases that will >>>adequately substitute for it. I trust you know what SNAFU means. Just >>>in case you do not, I will succinctly and subtly explain it to you. A >>>SNAFU is how you politely describe someone knocking his own mask off >>>with a stage bottle out of frustration because his buddy called the >>>dive. BTW, a SNAFU becomes a CF when the one commiting the SNAFU >>>happens to be the leader of the dive. Now I realize that a CF is the >>>norm for anything you do, so perhaps if we call it a SNAFU you will be >>>better able to deal with it. >>> >>>For example, when you were horrificly bent on the Doria after >>>solo-setting the hook (since you think you were the only one who could >>>do it), you said you behaved badly so you did not dive the rest of the >>>trip. Everyone knows you were just telling the JT "truth", and you >>>spent the rest of the trip on your bunk sucking on O2 when you should >>>have been flown out by the Coast Guard. This is similar to the NC trip >>>where you tied your deco bottles to the boat and got bent because you >>>couldn't get back to them. Actually, these are neither SNAFUs nor >>>CFs. These fall under the TARFU category. However, your attempt to >>>embarrass and cajole a diver into diving when they are saying they do >>>not feel well (possible DCS) is beyond any of this. That is FUBAR. >>> >>>Now I realize that all of this is getting somewhat complex, especially >>>for a pea brain such as yourself, so I have created the "BARKOMETER" >>>scale of abominable behaviors. It goes like this: >>> >>>SNAFU - A dive on which JT is a participant. Invariably, something >>>incredibly stupid will happen. >>> >>>CF - A SNAFU on which JT is the leader or organizer. Most likely, a NDE >>>(near death experience) will occur. >>> >>>TARFU - A CF which is the fruit of a long 4 minute thought process by >>>JT. Typically involves highly avoidable multiple NDEs. >>> >>>FUBAR - A TARFU which is the result of a malicious 3 minute thought >>>process by JT. It is typically preceeded by several TARFUs, and is done >>>in an attempt to smokescreen the multiple TARFUs that initially created >>>the need for a FUBAR. >>> >>>In closing, JT, can I please have an order of McNuggets, fries, a happy >>>meal, a bottled water and extra napkins -- to go? BTW - Make it snappy >>>and I'll send a letter to get you into McDonalds University. >>> >>>Best regards. >>> >>>Joe >>> >>>"Your a lair, fries don't come with that." >>> Capt. JT Barker >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: <mailto:captjt@mi*.co*>Capt JT >>>To: <mailto:girvine@be*.ne*>girvine@bellsouth.net ; >>><mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com >>>Cc: <mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com ; >>><mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net>FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:55 PM >>>Subject: RE: Lake Jocassee Project >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>I will only answer you this once, after that you just try and turn these >>>things into a shouting match. Funny how I can write about a dive and >>>only the truth comes out in it. Just like I told the old short >>>guy....make what you want of it. >>> >>>Also you want everyone to watch a TV show that leaves out the accident. >>>Lets put the facts out there. That team was hand picked, the so called >>>"dream team of diving", yet with all the planning, ect. ect. a diver >>>still got bent like a pretzel, I did not hear or see it in the show or >>>have anyone post from the trip that it happened and later another diver >>>from the team would die diving solo in a cave. These are just the facts. >>> >>>It is really great that GUE forces their instructors to have good basic >>>skills and even requires them to do a few real dives a year . But to >>>have good enough skills to become a GUE instructor is not enough to >>>handle the extreme stress of a 500ft dive, this was found out in the >>>accident that was reported on techdiver ( >>>http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?54330,from >>>)of the GUE instructor his name was on this post and buddy who either >>>panicked or had a RB problem at depth, bolted, and got seriously bent. I >>>hear there was no mention of this on quest, was there a cover up so not >>>to rattle the following? I give you permission to show my 490ft dive >>>tape(since you have a stolen copy) to all GUE instructors so they can >>>see how a 2 man team does that dive and no one gets hurt, they may have >>>good enough skills to be the best instructors, but at least one had >>>trouble surviving a real dive. >>>I hear you have been bashing Andrew over on quest pretty good, we all >>>know none of those GUE instructors will stand up to you. They depend on >>>doing diving instruction as a living and understand that when you shake >>>that money tree on these lists it will effect their income. I have met a >>>lot of these guys and they are just normal guys trying to make a buck. >>> >>>I do not make a dime off of diving and nothing you can do or say will >>>effect me. So standing up to you is just the right thing for me. When I >>>call someone a "weenie", I'm right on the mark........ The last diver I >>>called that on this list which was over a month ago has come and dived >>>with me, he had 75 logged dives and is no match for me or anyone in our >>>group. He was actually better than I thought he would be. Nice guy, he >>>just will need a lot of dives and work to get where he wants to be. >>> >>>So where does all this take us.........the fact remains and will always >>>remain as long as people place their heads underwater someone will die, >>>even the best will have a problem sometime, getting them to admit it or >>>that it has happen is a hard thing to do . I have yet had to go to a >>>chamber, no one has died on any trip I am in charge of. To my knowledge >>>few have done more sub 300ft wreck dives than me. I only know a few >>>divers who are more tougher underwater than me in the conditions I dive >>>in. And you ain't one of them, I saw how that 53 degree water kicked >>>your ass here on a 140ft dive. Stick to the clear warm water in them >>>caves and you will remain at the top and can beat your chest. >>> >>>I know you are going to blast a reply, I wouldn't expect anything less, >>>but don't expect a reply from me. >>> >>>BTW do you plan to have a recall on the wreck scooter so you can install >>>the right clutch at no cost that should have been installed in the first >>>place. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 06:17 AM 11/7/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote: >>> >>>>Listen, "Capt JT" , this is really pathetic. For one, you have so >>>>little skill and knowledge that it is laughable when you discuss >>>>taking days to deal with this self-created clusterfuck that would be >>>>nothing to a skilled diver. You calling people weenies is laughable >>>>when I know for a fact that you would not know where to start with a >>>>real dive. Your criticism of people who show proper judgment when faced >>>>with one of your mindless dive plans is inexcusable stroke bullshit. I >>>>will remind you that Jarrod and I both pulled the thumb on one of your >>>>ridiculous dive plans after seeing your SWBS in action. Want to call >>>>the two of us "weenies", Big Time? >>>> >>>>The fact is that you and you alone are the problem on all your dives - >>>>not only for yourself but for everyone around you. I can not believe >>>>these guys still subject themselves to this. >>>> >>>>By the way, as long as you are sending your reports to the rest of the >>>>gang "to make changes if it is true or I am mistaken before I post it", >>>>perhaps you could persuade one of them to edit out the illiteracy so >>>>that the comedy of your stupidity does not divert attention from the >>>>seriousness of the stroke example that you set. The problem is that >>>>people are laughing at you on here, and you are not the least bit funny. >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: joe@po*.co* [mailto:joe@po*.co*] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:22 PM >>>>To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Capt JT >>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com; FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>>Subject: Re: Lake Jocassee Project >>>>I do not doubt the veracity of the report. You couldn't have made that >>>>up. I am talking about your ridicule of those whose survival instincts >>>>prompted them to back out. I find that offensive because it is a good >>>>way to push people into getting themselves killed for fear of being >>>>criticized. >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: <mailto:captjt@mi*.co*>Capt JT >>>>To: <mailto:joe@po*.co*>Joe ; >>>><mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com >>>>Cc: <mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com ; >>>><mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net>FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:46 PM >>>>Subject: Re: Lake Jocassee Project >>>>Make what you want of it, everyone who was there and those who were to >>>>go but didn't know the answers. Not one of them will post anything >>>>different than what I say. Every report on dives I make is sent to >>>>those on the trip and they have the option to make changes if it is >>>>true or I am mistaken before I post it. >>>> At 07:25 PM 11/6/02 -0800, Joe wrote: >>>>>JT: >>>>>I love the way you try to make fun of the people that had more sense >>>>>than to dive with you, whether the reason was that the dive was beyond >>>>>their abilities and experience or that they just were using good >>>>>judgment and abiding by rules no. 1 and 2. >>>>>You make the dive sound like a dare. What's up with that? >>>>>Best. >>>>>Joe >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: <mailto:captjt@mi*.co*>Capt JT >>>>>To: <mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com >>>>>Cc: <mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com ; >>>>><mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net>FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:19 AM >>>>>Subject: Lake Jocassee Project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Lake Jocassee is a dammed valley with depths at times to 350ft. After >>>>>last years trip to the lake ( read about it here >>>>>http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?51280,from >>>>> ) a new project was born. When the valley was flooded around 1968 >>>>>everal structures were left and is the bases for many rumors as to >>>>>what is still there and who left what. With forest, roads, peaks, and >>>>>who really knows what is down there, it was a challenge to find a >>>>>starting point to began a search for some of these rumored things. >>>>>Jackie Smith who has many dives to the lake had started to follow a >>>>>road that would lead him to a bridge, sound easy? Once you add in the >>>>>depth of 300ft and distance one might have to swim while poking a rod >>>>>down through the muck to feel for the road you get the feeling this >>>>>will take some time. >>>>> >>>>>Capt Bill Routh owner of "Off The Wall Dive Charters"( >>>>>www.offthewalldiving.com ) had done 3 years of interviews and >>>>>archives of old aerial soil assay pictures from the 60's. After >>>>>endless hrs motoring around looking Bill contacted friends with a Side >>>>>Scan Sonar , Jonathan Royer & Danelle Haley with Deep Seekers to help >>>>>map the bottom. After a few days an area was located that showed what >>>>>could be a bridge with a creek/river, the bridge was over what used to >>>>>be White Water River that ran adjacent to a camp. An old photograph >>>>>taken from someone standing on the bridge revealed a place called >>>>>"Camp Jocassee". Camp Jocassee established in 1922 for girls ran until >>>>>late 60's the summer before the DAM, it had a main building and >>>>>residence for the camp owners and several concrete block cabins for >>>>>the campers.The entrance to the camp was lined with stone walls with >>>>>pillars on each side of a white picket fence gate as shown in the >>>>>picture taken from the bridge looking toward the camp entrance. >>>>>I asked Jackie if I could help and the project was born. Jackie >>>>>arranged for the charter with Capt Bill Routh owner of "Off The Wall >>>>>Dive Charters"( www.offthewalldiving.com ) and I assembled the group, >>>>>I had at first limited it to 8 divers. Knowing that many would back >>>>>out once the time came near I allowed 12 to commit. Saying you can do >>>>>a 300ft dive in cold water in very low vis and actually doing it are 2 >>>>>different things. The first only takes your mouth, the second takes much more. >>>>>As the date came within a week the excuses started rolling in, I even >>>>>heard one guy say his wife was planning on getting pregnant that >>>>>weekend and he wanted to be there when it happened, so he couldn't >>>>>make the dive. (not really true, but sounds good don't it) >>>>>With the group down to 7 we headed to the lake, one guy said his >>>>>engine blew up, so we were down to 6 at dive time. >>>>>Capt. Bill with Samantha Swenson as crew (who did a great job) dropped >>>>>a shot line in what was believed to be the old creek bed, the level of >>>>>the lake was low and the depth here was only 315ft, some trees >>>>>remained on each side of the creek and we believed that we could >>>>>scooter it until we found the bridge and a lift bag would be deployed >>>>>and secured to the bridge, then a permanent line could then be attached to it. >>>>>Tom Sawicki, Bill Ripley and myself were tasked for this and geared up >>>>>for the dive. The air temp had warmed up from the morning cool of 33, >>>>>to a cool of around 43. We entered the water carrying all gas needed >>>>>for the dive, we were diving gas mixes and tables recommended by Tom, >>>>>I am not allowed to disclose the mixes and tables. The water temp was >>>>>65 on top down to 80ft and did a drop to 46 degrees, vis went from >>>>>20ft down to 5ft around 200ft. Tom stopped at 225ft and called the >>>>>dive during the descent, I could not understand why. Everyone returned >>>>>Ok signs back to me and yet Tom still was calling the dive, I could >>>>>not understand why. I asked Tom why and on his wet notes he wrote >>>>>"VIS", I was pissed........ It is a standing rule that if one calls >>>>>the dive we must all surface, but that did not mean I had to be happy >>>>>about it. At one point I knocked my own mask off while moving stages >>>>>around because I was so pissed. Once on the boat he explained that >>>>>scootering in that low vis was not doable and we were getting to far >>>>>apart for such low vis, he was correct, but we did not know it was >>>>>that bad on the bottom yet, but later we would find he was right about >>>>>that and was only concerned with every ones safety. >>>>>The plan was then changed and Jackie Smith, Charlie Johnson, and >>>>>Rodney King (not that Rodney King) would go down another line that was >>>>>dropped and hoped it had hooked the bridge(if it was there) or near >>>>>it, hopefully not in the trees. We watched as they went down and could >>>>>see they were not leaving the line. They surfaced to report that the >>>>>hook had in fact snagged the bridge, but vis was less than 5ft. >>>>> >>>>>With the first day gone, plans were made for the second day. Tom, >>>>>Bill, Rodney, and myself would go down the line we left buoyed to the >>>>>bridge,Tom would run a line from the bridge in a direction we believed >>>>>the camp to be, Rodney would video, Bill and myself would stay near >>>>>them and survey. >>>>> >>>>>Once at the top of the bridge which was at 289ft I waited for everyone >>>>>to show up, Rodney videoed while Tom and I secured the line to the >>>>>bridge that would be run. Once everyone made the move away from the >>>>>bridge I was at the rear and checked my gas(I was the only one using >>>>>the same tanks from the first dive and they were less than full when >>>>>we started, I had gave my second set of doubles to Tom to use). I had >>>>>reached my turn pressure and returned to the bridge, vis was so bad >>>>>they were not aware of this and I chose to remain close to the up line >>>>>and just inspect the bridge to conserve gas. They returned with >>>>>excitement in their eyes having run the line to a white picket fence >>>>>that surrounds the camp which has stone pillars at the entrance and >>>>>can be seen in the video, the reel was left on the fence for who ever >>>>>goes next to run the line into the camp house which should be just inside. >>>>> >>>>>Jackie and Charlie were tasked to take down a permanent line and chain >>>>>it into the bridge that would be left for future dives, a keg was >>>>>placed on the line 20ft under the surface and GPS coordinates were taken. >>>>> >>>>>I will show the video at the VBtech meeting on Thursday and place >>>>>photos on my site as soon as I can. >>>>> >>>>>Hope you have enjoyed this report >>>>>Capt JT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get >>>>>in the water" >>>>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>>>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>>>>Email captjt@mi*.co* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >>>the water" >>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>>Email captjt@mi*.co* >>> >>> >>> >>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >>>the water" >>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>>Email captjt@mi*.co* >> >> >>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >>the water" >>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>Email captjt@mi*.co* > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >the water" >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >Email captjt@mi*.co* > --=====================_12027331==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> At 07:45 PM 11/12/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote:<br> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF"><blockquote type=3Dcite cite= >For anyone who wants to understand the kind of incidents like what happened to a support diver on the Britannic trip</font></blockquote><br> I doubt you will tell it exactly like I was told by the guys who were there, but you do confirm with that statement something happened. Once again everyone can see I tell the truth. <br> <br> <br> <br> <font face=3D"tahoma" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite= cite>o:captjt@mi*.co*]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:53 AM<br> <b>To:</b> joe@po*.co*; fltechdiver@mikey.net<br> <b>Cc:</b> vbtech@ci*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Lake Jocassee Project<br> </font><blockquote> <dl> <dd>Joe <dd> You don't have a clue, the truth is, I tell the truth. I have exposed George many times, you and your group with the accident you guys tried to hide, the Bent diver on the Britannic was common knowledge among the real divers. Someone tried to tell it on the list soon after the trip and George pounded them. I got it straight from 2 of the horses mouth that were there and they told me in front of others in our group, so they know it's true. If you guys told the truth about your dives, we wouldn't even be posting to each other. <br> <br> <dd>The fact is this list is compiled of mostly novice divers and should be allowed to know that even the best have things happen on dives. So they can make a sound decision whether doing these kinds of dives are worth the risk for them. Only a select few that do real dives post, others like Dean and Joel should not even be diving, much less posting about it on a tech list. I exposed these guys long ago and they like you are trying to find a way to get back at me. LOL<br> <br> <dd>Try the best you can to get at me with the bullshit, but I get at you guys with the truth. My guys are telling me that someone put the question out on quest about the bent diver and Peter asked for it to be answered on here. THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING........=20 <dd>You're a small man with a small mind. Please tell George to keep his zipper up, you're getting out way to much.<br> <br> <dd>JT<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd>At 05:56 AM 11/11/02 -0500, joe@po*.co* wrote:<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite> <dd>JT: <dd> <dd>I asked you why you were making fun of the people who used good judgement and did not participate in your Lake Jocassee cluster fuck. <dd> <dd>Instead of defending your position, you proceeded to yap about anything and everything, rather than answering a simple question of why you belittled those who choose not to participate in your stupidity. <dd> <dd>Fact: You are an illiterate moron with no scruples or ethics. <dd> <dd>Fact: When caught in stupidity, you will do anything possible to divert attention from it, especially trying to confuse the issue by making disparaging remarks about those whose accomplisments you could never approach. What ever transpired on the Britannic Expedition has nothing to do with your continually setting a horrific example of how not to conduct oneself in the dive community. Your likening yourself to the Britannic team is beyond funny and comparing an alleged 490 foot, 2 man sand dive to a legitimate expedition is ludicrous. <dd> <dd>I would also like to know what does an incident in Brazil have to do with your stupidity in Lake Jocassee? I never cease to be amazed at your inability to complete a thought. =20 <dd> <dd>Another EXTREMELY disgusting thing about you is the way you gloat over "another diver from the team would die diving solo in a cave". Does this make you happy? =20 <dd> <dd>Your version of the truth is not under scrutiny. No one really cares to dispute it because it is not significant. What is significant is the content of your dive stories. Specifically, your profound inability to conduct a dive that does not become some form of a SNAFU, shall we say. I hesitate to use CF again because I do not like to be unnecessarily redundant, but there are not many phrases that will adequately substitute for it. I trust you know what SNAFU means. Just in case you do not, I will succinctly and subtly explain it to you. A SNAFU is how you politely describe someone knocking his own mask off with a stage bottle out of frustration because his buddy called the dive. BTW, a SNAFU becomes a CF when the one commiting the SNAFU happens to be the leader of the dive. Now I realize that a CF is the norm for anything you do, so perhaps if we call it a SNAFU you will be better able to deal with it. <dd> <dd>For example, when you were horrificly bent on the Doria after solo-setting the hook (since you think you were the only one who could do it), you said you behaved badly so you did not dive the rest of the trip. Everyone knows you were just telling the JT "truth", and you spent the rest of the trip on your bunk sucking on O2 when you should have been flown out by the Coast Guard. This is similar to the NC trip where you tied your deco bottles to the boat and got bent because you couldn't get back to them. Actually, these are neither SNAFUs nor CFs. These fall under the TARFU category. However, your attempt to embarrass and cajole a diver into diving when they are saying they do not feel well (possible DCS) is beyond any of this. That is FUBAR. <dd> <dd>Now I realize that all of this is getting somewhat complex, especially for a pea brain such as yourself, so I have created the "BARKOMETER" scale of abominable behaviors. It goes like this: <dd> <dd>SNAFU - A dive on which JT is a participant. Invariably, something incredibly stupid will happen. <dd> <dd>CF - A SNAFU on which JT is the leader or organizer. Most likely, a NDE (near death experience) will occur. <dd> <dd>TARFU - A CF which is the fruit of a long 4 minute thought process by JT. Typically involves highly avoidable multiple NDEs.=20 <dd> <dd>FUBAR - A TARFU which is the result of a malicious 3 minute thought process by JT. It is typically preceeded by several TARFUs, and is done in an attempt to smokescreen the multiple TARFUs that initially created the need for a FUBAR. <dd> <dd>In closing, JT, can I please have an order of McNuggets, fries, a happy meal, a bottled water and extra napkins -- to go? BTW - Make it snappy and I'll send a letter to get you into McDonalds University.=20 <dd> <dd>Best regards. <dd> <dd>Joe <dd> <dd>"Your a lair, fries don't come with that." <dd> = &nbs= p; Capt. JT Barker</font>=20 <dd>----- Original Message -----=20 <dd>From: <a href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*">Capt JT</a>=20 <dd>To: <a href=3D"mailto:girvine@be*.ne*">girvine@bellsouth.net</a> ; <a href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a>=20 <dd>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a>= ; <a href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</a>=20 <dd>Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:55 PM=20 <dd>Subject: RE: Lake Jocassee Project<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd>I will only answer you this once, after that you just try and turn these= things into a shouting match. Funny how I can write about a dive and only= the truth comes out in it. Just like I told the old short guy....make what= you want of it. <br> <br> <dd>Also you want everyone to watch a TV show that leaves out the accident.= Lets put the facts out there. That team was hand picked, the so called= "dream team of diving", yet with all the planning, ect. ect. a= diver still got bent like a pretzel, I did not hear or see it in the show= or have anyone post from the trip that it happened and later another diver= from the team would die diving solo in a cave. These are just the= facts.<br> <br> <dd>It is really great that GUE forces their instructors to have good basic= skills and even requires them to do a few real dives a year . But to have= good enough skills to become a GUE instructor is not enough to handle the= extreme stress of a 500ft dive, this was found out in the accident that was= reported on techdiver ( <a= href=3D"http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?54330,= from"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/dis= play?54330,from</a> )of the GUE instructor his name was on this post and= buddy who either panicked or had a RB problem at depth, bolted, and got= seriously bent. I hear there was no mention of this on quest, was there a= cover up so not to rattle the following? I give you permission to show my= 490ft dive tape(since you have a stolen copy) to all GUE instructors so= they can see how a 2 man team does that dive and no one gets hurt, they may= have good enough skills to be the best instructors, but at least one had= trouble surviving a real dive.=20 <dd>I hear you have been bashing Andrew over on quest pretty good, we all= know none of those GUE instructors will stand up to you. They depend on= doing diving instruction as a living and understand that when you shake= that money tree on these lists it will effect their income. I have met a= lot of these guys and they are just normal guys trying to make a buck.<br> <br> <dd>I do not make a dime off of diving and nothing you can do or say will= effect me. So standing up to you is just the right thing for me. When I= call someone a "weenie", I'm right on the mark........ The last= diver I called that on this list which was over a month ago has come and= dived with me, he had 75 logged dives and is no match for me or anyone in= our group. He was actually better than I thought he would be. Nice guy, he= just will need a lot of dives and work to get where he wants to be.<br> <br> <dd>So where does all this take us.........the fact remains and will always= remain as long as people place their heads underwater someone will die,= even the best will have a problem sometime, getting them to admit it or= that it has happen is a hard thing to do . I have yet had to go to a= chamber, no one has died on any trip I am in charge of. To my knowledge few= have done more sub 300ft wreck dives than me. I only know a few divers who= are more tougher underwater than me in the conditions I dive in. And you= ain't one of them, I saw how that 53 degree water kicked your ass here on a= 140ft dive. Stick to the clear warm water in them caves and you will remain= at the top and can beat your chest. <br> <br> <dd>I know you are going to blast a reply, I wouldn't expect anything less,= but don't expect a reply from me.<br> <br> <dd>BTW do you plan to have a recall on the wreck scooter so you can install= the right clutch at no cost that should have been installed in the first= place. <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd> At 06:17 AM 11/7/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite> <dd>Listen, "Capt JT" , this is really pathetic. For one, you have= so little skill and knowledge that it is laughable when you discuss= taking days to deal with this self-created clusterfuck that would be= nothing to a skilled diver. You calling people weenies is laughable when I= know for a fact that you would not know where to start with a real= dive. Your criticism of people who show proper judgment when faced with one= of your mindless dive plans is inexcusable stroke bullshit. I will remind= you that Jarrod and I both pulled the thumb on one of your ridiculous dive= plans after seeing your SWBS in action. Want to call the two of us= "weenies", Big Time?<br> <br> <dd>The fact is that you and you alone are the problem on all your dives -= not only for yourself but for everyone around you. I can not believe these= guys still subject themselves to this.<br> <br> <dd>By the way, as long as you are sending your reports to the rest of the= gang "to make changes if it is true or I am mistaken before I post= it", perhaps you could persuade one of them to edit out the= illiteracy so that the comedy of your stupidity does not divert attention= from the seriousness of the stroke example that you set. The problem is= that people are laughing at you on here, and you are not the least bit= funny. <font face=3D"tahoma"> <dd>-----Original Message-----</font><font face=3D"tahoma" size=3D2>=20 <dd>From: joe@po*.co* [<a href=3D"mailto:joe@po*.co*"= eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:joe@po*.co*</a>]=20 <dd>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:22 PM=20 <dd>To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Capt JT=20 <dd>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com; FLTechDiver@mikey.net=20 <dd>Subject: Re: Lake Jocassee Project</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>= =20 <dd>I do not doubt the veracity of the report. You couldn't have made= that up. I am talking about your ridicule of those whose survival= instincts prompted them to back out. I find that offensive because it= is a good way to push people into getting themselves killed for fear of= being criticized.</font>=20 <dd>----- Original Message -----=20 <dd>From: <a href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*">Capt JT</a>=20 <dd>To: <a href=3D"mailto:joe@po*.co*">Joe</a> ; <a= href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a>=20 <dd>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a>= ; <a href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</a>=20 <dd>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:46 PM=20 <dd>Subject: Re: Lake Jocassee Project=20 <dd>Make what you want of it, everyone who was there and those who were to= go but didn't know the answers. Not one of them will post anything= different than what I say. Every report on dives I make is sent to those on= the trip and they have the option to make changes if it is true or I am= mistaken before I post it.=20 <dd> At 07:25 PM 11/6/02 -0800, Joe wrote:<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2= > <blockquote type=3Dcite cite> <dd>JT:</font> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2> <dd>I love the way you try to make fun of the people that had more sense= than to dive with you, whether the reason was that the dive was beyond= their abilities and experience or that they just were using good judgment= and abiding by rules no. 1 and 2.</font> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2> <dd>You make the dive sound like a dare. What's up with that?</font>= <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2> <dd>Best.</font> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2> <dd>Joe</font>=20 <dd>----- Original Message -----=20 <dd>From: <a href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*">Capt JT</a>=20 <dd>To: <a href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a>= =20 <dd>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a>= ; <a href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</a>=20 <dd>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:19 AM=20 <dd>Subject: Lake Jocassee Project<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd>Lake Jocassee is a dammed valley with depths at times to 350ft. After= last years trip to the lake ( read about it here <a= href=3D"http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?51280,= from"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/dis= play?51280,from</a> ) a new project was born. When the valley was flooded= around 1968 several structures were left and is the bases for many rumors= as to what is still there and who left what. With forest, roads, peaks, and= who really knows what is down there, it was a challenge to find a starting= point to began a search for some of these rumored things.=20 <dd>Jackie Smith who has many dives to the lake had started to follow a road= that would lead him to a bridge, sound easy? Once you add in the depth of= 300ft and distance one might have to swim while poking a rod down through= the muck to feel for the road you get the feeling this will take some= time. <br> <br> <dd>Capt Bill Routh owner of "Off The Wall Dive Charters"( <a= href=3D"http://www.offthewalldiving.com/" eudora=3D"autourl"><font= color=3D"#0000FF">www.offthewalldiving.com</a></font> ) had done 3= years of interviews and archives of old aerial soil assay pictures from the= 60's. After endless hrs motoring around looking Bill contacted friends with= a Side Scan Sonar , Jonathan Royer & Danelle Haley with Deep Seekers to= help map the bottom. After a few days an area was located that showed what= could be a bridge with a creek/river, the bridge was over what used to be= White Water River that ran adjacent to a camp. An old photograph taken from= someone standing on the bridge revealed a place called "Camp= Jocassee". Camp Jocassee established in 1922 for girls ran until late= 60's the summer before the DAM, it had a main building and residence for= the camp owners and several concrete block cabins for the campers.The= entrance to the camp was lined with stone walls with pillars on each side= of a white picket fence gate as shown in the picture taken from the bridge= looking toward the camp entrance.=20 <dd>I asked Jackie if I could help and the project was born. Jackie arranged= for the charter with Capt Bill Routh owner of "Off The Wall Dive= Charters"( <a href=3D"http://www.offthewalldiving.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl"><font= color=3D"#0000FF">www.offthewalldiving.com</a></font> ) and I= assembled the group, I had at first limited it to 8 divers. Knowing that= many would back out once the time came near I allowed 12 to commit. Saying= you can do a 300ft dive in cold water in very low vis and actually doing it= are 2 different things. The first only takes your mouth, the second takes= much more.=20 <dd>As the date came within a week the excuses started rolling in, I even= heard one guy say his wife was planning on getting pregnant that weekend= and he wanted to be there when it happened, so he couldn't make the dive.= (not really true, but sounds good don't it)=20 <dd>With the group down to 7 we headed to the lake, one guy said his engine= blew up, so we were down to 6 at dive time.=20 <dd>Capt. Bill with Samantha Swenson as crew (who did a great job) dropped a= shot line in what was believed to be the old creek bed, the level of the= lake was low and the depth here was only 315ft, some trees remained on each= side of the creek and we believed that we could scooter it until we found= the bridge and a lift bag would be deployed and secured to the bridge, then= a permanent line could then be attached to it.=20 <dd>Tom Sawicki, Bill Ripley and myself were tasked for this and geared up= for the dive. The air temp had warmed up from the morning cool of 33, to a= cool of around 43. We entered the water carrying all gas needed for the= dive, we were diving gas mixes and tables recommended by Tom, I am not= allowed to disclose the mixes and tables. The water temp was 65 on top down= to 80ft and did a drop to 46 degrees, vis went from 20ft down to 5ft around= 200ft. Tom stopped at 225ft and called the dive during the descent, I could= not understand why. Everyone returned Ok signs back to me and yet Tom still= was calling the dive, I could not understand why. I asked Tom why and on= his wet notes he wrote "VIS", I was pissed........ It is a= standing rule that if one calls the dive we must all surface, but that did= not mean I had to be happy about it. At one point I knocked my own mask off= while moving stages around because I was so pissed. Once on the boat he= explained that scootering in that low vis was not doable and we were= getting to far apart for such low vis, he was correct, but we did not know= it was that bad on the bottom yet, but later we would find he was right= about that and was only concerned with every ones safety.=20 <dd>The plan was then changed and Jackie Smith, Charlie Johnson, and Rodney= King (not that Rodney King) would go down another line that was dropped and= hoped it had hooked the bridge(if it was there) or near it, hopefully not= in the trees. We watched as they went down and could see they were not= leaving the line. They surfaced to report that the hook had in fact snagged= the bridge, but vis was less than 5ft.<br> <br> <dd>With the first day gone, plans were made for the second day. Tom, Bill,= Rodney, and myself would go down the line we left buoyed to the bridge,Tom= would run a line from the bridge in a direction we believed the camp to be,= Rodney would video, Bill and myself would stay near them and survey. <br> <br> <dd>Once at the top of the bridge which was at 289ft I waited for everyone= to show up, Rodney videoed while Tom and I secured the line to the bridge= that would be run. Once everyone made the move away from the bridge I was= at the rear and checked my gas(I was the only one using the same tanks from= the first dive and they were less than full when we started, I had gave my= second set of doubles to Tom to use). I had reached my turn pressure and= returned to the bridge, vis was so bad they were not aware of this and I= chose to remain close to the up line and just inspect the bridge to= conserve gas. They returned with excitement in their eyes having run the= line to a white picket fence that surrounds the camp which has stone= pillars at the entrance and can be seen in the video, the reel was left on= the fence for who ever goes next to run the line into the camp house which= should be just inside.<br> <br> <dd>Jackie and Charlie were tasked to take down a permanent line and chain= it into the bridge that would be left for future dives, a keg was placed on= the line 20ft under the surface and GPS coordinates were taken. <br> <br> <dd>I will show the video at the VBtech meeting on Thursday and place photos= on my site as soon as I can.<br> <br> <dd>Hope you have enjoyed this report=20 <dd>Capt JT <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <dd>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to= get in the water"<font color=3D"#0000FF">=20 <dd>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more=20 <dd> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a>=20 <dd>Email captjt@mi*.co*</font>= </blockquote></blockquote> </dl><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in= the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF">Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East= Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*</font><br> <br> <br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in= the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF">Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East= Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> </font></blockquote><br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in= the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF">Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East= Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> </font></u></blockquote><br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in= the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East= Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com</a><a= href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/" eudora=3D"autourl">/<br> </a>Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> <br> </font></u></html> --=====================_12027331==_.ALT-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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