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He is on the right list. Here he will get it straight from somebody who
knows, there he would get it from the whole list.

He is no different than anyone else - they learn nonsense, they see people
doing things more easily, they want to improve, but they get a half assed
version and then the strokes battle the whole thing.

There is no cost to DIR, there is no mystery or difficulty - it is common
sense. The strokes don't want anyone to hear that because it makes them look
so stupid.

Setting up your own standards and following them will not let you down.
"Almost DIR", "getting there", "agree with some but not all", etc etc don't
cut it. The very simple basic premises of DIR solve all of the issues
discussed on this or any other list, and certainly would go a long way
towards eliminating the body count of tech diving.

I see some of the drooling pussies like this Ramsay asshole are crying about
me again. Back six or eight years ago, or whenever this weenie is carping
about, deep air diving was the norm. 18 instructors from one agency got
killed deep air diving in one year. I called them stupid. Assholes like
Ramsay had a big problem with that.

How many people do you see today arguing the virtues of deep air? How many
agencies have had to change their standards? Let me assure you that no
improvement would have been made without somebody's boot in the stroke ass.
The excuse that the strokes will continue to do stupid things and kill
themselves to defy me is giving me a lot more power than I will ever have.
It is bullshit, just like the people who say it.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Grey [mailto:grey@te*.ne*]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:32 PM
  To: De La Mare; Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
  Subject: Re: Dive forum


  Ahhh......
  You are on the wrong list,Dude.
  This list is a lot like life....you get what you pay for.
  And we know how much it costs to be on this list...right ????
  Pony up a few bucks and get on the GUE/Quest  List.
  At least over there you will find out how to eat your fish n' chips out of
parchment.....or your thesis.....or your 'migra Green Card.
  Later,


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: De La Mare
    To: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
    Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:18 AM
    Subject: Dive forum


    I first subscribed to this technical forum because I believed it was a
place I could learn from others who have been diving  a lot longer than I
have.
    However, in the few months I have been on it I have realized that it is
a place where no one dares to talk freely about their own equipment use or
of the problems they have encountered during dives.

    Surely we are all in the same boat, we want to learn more from each
others successes and failures during dives. No one should be afraid to talk
about anything concerning technical diving. If during you dive last weekend
you encountered a problem this surely should be the place to talk about it
and share it with others, so maybe we can learn from each others mistakes.

    Clearly this is not the case at all because we are all afraid of that
word stroke !!
    We all started from the beginning, strokes maybe. I myself cannot
possibly afford to buy all the correct diving equipment recommended by the
DIR philosophy which I strongly believe is the correct way of diving in this
new era. I have a none diving wife and two young children and diving is
simply a hobby to me. If I went out and bought all the equipment I believe
is best for my dives I would be a single man paying child support. So for
now I must contend to dive with some of my equipment being substandard until
I can afford the  parts I want.

    Should I stop diving until I have every piece of equipment that is DIR
approved. I think Mr. Irvine might say yes, but I say no.
    I will continue to dive but there are dives I simply cannot do until I
am happy that I have the correct equipment to make my dives as safe as
possible.

    What is really lacking  in this forum is people talking about diving.
Any one who has made over 300 dives must surely have had near misses
underwater. Surely its not a perfect science. I for one want to be able to
read about it, so please lets stop being afraid of the Big Guns around here
who are ready to shoot us dead as soon as we admit to failure.
    Two weeks ago I was diving on a wreck I have made over 200 dives on and
believe I know so well and feel so at home on, but I made a fundamental
mistake and broke  two rules. I have no excuses for it and I should no
better.
    I share it with you guys now and hope others may be less afraid to admit
their errors here.
    I went solo diving  and entered a wreck at 40m and made my way to the
engine room. I have been their at least 10 times and know the route well. It
also has a fixed line leading you there and back and is not too difficult.
During my dive there were about 40 other divers on the wreck all tourists
being led by dive schools in the area.
    While I was in the engine room a group of divers entered one of the
small rooms that I had to pass through on my return to the exit. While they
were in there they completely destroyed the vis and when I came back into
that room I became completely disorientated and for 3 minutes I was lost and
could not find the exit door out even though   there was a fixed line. I
held on to the line and repeated to myself over and over not to panic, I
know this room well and I know the exit is there. I did find it and I
survived but had I panicked I may not be here now.
    Even though there is a permanent line fixed leading from the lower car
deck to the engine room I still should have deployed my own line.
    I have learnt my lesson perhaps the hard way, and now I share it with
you. Perhaps I may make others like myself who think that being totally
familiar with a wreck doesn't mean you can break the fundamental rules of
penetration.

    I want to thank all those who answered my request for information on the
VR3. I found what I wanted to know. However thanks to some of you guys I
have come to the conclusion I have no need of this computer. My dives are
square dives, I need only the planner and a slate and a reasonable back up
computer. I will save my money and buy the HID 18 watt which I have long
coveted but never been able to afford.

    Andre De La Mare (Cyprus)

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>He is=20
on the right list. Here he will get it straight from somebody who knows, =
there=20
he would get it from the whole list.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>He is=20
no different than anyone else - they learn nonsense, they see people =
doing=20
things more easily, they want to improve, but they get a half assed =
version and=20
then the strokes battle the whole thing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>There=20
is no cost to DIR, there is no mystery or difficulty - it is common =
sense. The=20
strokes don't want anyone to hear that because it makes them look so=20
stupid.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Setting up your own standards and following them will not let =
you down.=20
"Almost DIR", "getting there", "agree with some but not all", etc etc =
don't cut=20
it. The very simple basic premises of DIR solve all of the =
issues discussed=20
on this or any other list, and certainly would go a long way =
towards=20
eliminating the body count of tech diving.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I see=20
some of the drooling pussies like this Ramsay asshole are crying =
about me=20
again. Back six or eight years ago, or whenever this weenie is carping =
about,=20
deep air diving was the norm. 18 instructors from one agency got =
killed=20
deep air diving in one year. I called them stupid. Assholes like Ramsay =
had a=20
big problem with that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D732121510-29082002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>How=20
many people do you see today arguing the virtues of deep air? How =
many=20
agencies have had to change their standards? Let me assure you that no=20
improvement would have been made without somebody's boot in the =
stroke=20
ass.</FONT> <FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The excuse =
that the=20
strokes will continue to do stupid things and kill themselves to defy me =
is=20
giving me a lot more power than I will ever have. It is bullshit, just =
like the=20
people who say it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Grey=20
  [mailto:grey@te*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 28, 2002 =
11:32=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> De La Mare;
Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
  Dive forum<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ahhh......</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are on the wrong =
list,Dude.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This list is a lot like life....you =
get what you=20
  pay for.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And we know how much it costs to be =
on this=20
  list...right ????</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pony up a few bucks and get on the=20
  GUE/Quest  List.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At least over there you will find out =
how to eat=20
  your fish n' chips out of parchment.....or your thesis.....or your =
'migra=20
  Green Card.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Later,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Ddelamare@sp*.co*.cy*=20
    href=3D"mailto:delamare@sp*.co*.cy*">De La Mare</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com">Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 27, =
2002 9:18=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Dive forum</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I first subscribed to this =
technical forum=20
    because I believed it was a place I could learn from others who have =
been=20
    diving  a lot longer than I have.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>However, in the few months I have =
been on it I=20
    have realized that it is a place where no one dares to talk freely =
about=20
    their own equipment use or of the problems they have encountered =
during=20
    dives.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Surely we are all in the same boat, =
we want to=20
    learn more from each others successes and failures during dives. No =
one=20
    should be afraid to talk about anything concerning technical diving. =
If=20
    during you dive last weekend you encountered a problem this surely =
should be=20
    the place to talk about it and share it with others, so maybe we can =
learn=20
    from each others mistakes.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clearly this is not the case at all =
because we=20
    are all afraid of that word stroke !!</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We all started from the beginning, =
strokes=20
    maybe. I myself cannot possibly afford to buy all the correct diving =

    equipment recommended by the DIR philosophy which I strongly believe =
is the=20
    correct way of diving in this new era. I have a none diving wife and =
two=20
    young children and diving is simply a hobby to me. If I went out and =
bought=20
    all the equipment I believe is best for my dives I would be a single =
man=20
    paying child support. So for now I must contend to dive with some of =
my=20
    equipment being substandard until I can afford the  parts I=20
    want.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Should I stop diving until I have =
every piece=20
    of equipment that is DIR approved. I think Mr. Irvine might say yes, =
but I=20
    say no.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will continue to dive but there =
are dives I=20
    simply cannot do until I am happy that I have the correct equipment =
to make=20
    my dives as safe as possible.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What is really lacking  in =
this forum is=20
    people talking about diving. Any one who has made over 300 dives =
must surely=20
    have had near misses underwater. Surely its not a perfect science. I =
for one=20
    want to be able to read about it, so please lets stop being afraid =
of the=20
    Big Guns around here who are ready to shoot us dead as soon as we =
admit to=20
    failure.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two weeks ago I was diving on a =
wreck I have=20
    made over 200 dives on and believe I know so well and feel so at =
home on,=20
    but I made a fundamental mistake and broke  two rules. I have =
no=20
    excuses for it and I should no better.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I share it with you guys now and =
hope others=20
    may be less afraid to admit their errors here.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I went solo diving  and =
entered a wreck at=20
    40m and made my way to the engine room. I have been their at least =
10 times=20
    and know the route well. It also has a fixed line leading you =
there and=20
    back and is not too difficult. During my dive there were about 40 =
other=20
    divers on the wreck all tourists  being led by dive schools in =
the=20
    area.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While I was in the engine room a =
group of=20
    divers entered one of the small rooms that I had to pass through on =
my=20
    return to the exit. While they were in there they completely =
destroyed the=20
    vis and when I came back into that room I became completely =
disorientated=20
    and for 3 minutes I was lost and could not find the exit door out =
even=20
    though   there was a fixed line. I held on to the line and =

    repeated to myself over and over not to panic, I know this room well =
and I=20
    know the exit is there. I did find it and I survived but had I =
panicked I=20
    may not be here now.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even though there is a permanent =
line fixed=20
    leading from the lower car  deck to the engine room I still =
should have=20
    deployed my own line. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have learnt my lesson perhaps the =
hard way,=20
    and now I share it with you. Perhaps I may make others like myself =
who think=20
    that being totally familiar with a wreck doesn't mean you can break =
the=20
    fundamental rules of penetration.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I want to thank all those who =
answered my=20
    request for information on the VR3. I found what I wanted to know. =
However=20
    thanks to some of you guys I have come to the conclusion I have no =
need of=20
    this computer. My dives are square dives, I need only the planner =
and a=20
    slate and a reasonable back up computer. I will save my money and =
buy the=20
    HID 18 watt which I have long coveted but never been able to=20
    afford.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andre De La Mare=20
 
(Cyprus)</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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