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Mike: Your post says it all. The wreck scooter has proven itself beyond anything I expected. To be truthful, I half expected the struts to come loose after a few of those Canaveral trips, especially the one where we got caught in the PM storms. The motor is faster than my little one and that scooter is *fast*. Bucking the Florida Current, I expected the motor to be cooking brush boards but it didn't. JT is incapable of being objective about any of this and allows his personal resentments to stand ahead of reality. He bought the scooter and thought that it would make him an instant "big time diver". When he found out he was a spas in the water with or without a scooter it just HAD to be that the scooter was no good. After all, it couldn't possibly be his ineptness. My original scooter was bought about 8 or 9 so years ago. It is bullet proof. I have literally taken it all over the US as well as the Yucatan. It has traveled on horse back, in jungle buggies and been lowered and raised via block and tackle down cliffs. It has never needed a repair except for when I broke the trigger cable. Could it be that all the good parts went to us and all of the bad ones went to JT? I think not. The whining about the scooters is more smoke and mirrors to take attention away from his personal failures in much the same way that he has attempted to involve Pizzio. Fact is that this guy couldn't shine Pizzios shoes and has not EARNED the right to make disparaging remarks about him or anyone else. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:29 AM Subject: reality Hi JT: I will go ahead and indulge you with one post to bring some truth to the BS you keep offering, and to help set the record straight about the scooters, which you continue to babble about. "Well, now that we know the AUE guys are buying the scooters from you, we now know that is why you like them. They will not get on hear (sic) and tell everyone if they are having any problems with them, the code of silence thing again." NO ONE IN AUE HAS EVER PURCHASED A "WRECK" GAVIN FROM GEORGE IRVINE. First, if anyone is interested in my "relationship" with George, or what we think of each other, feel free to check the archives. Further JT, I am sure you can also provide numerous "private e-mails" to illustrate what George thinks of us or what I think of George. However, when it comes to improving my diving or the success of our dives, I put the BS aside and will talk and try and work with anyone. That is the "Tao of George" - he is a monumental asshole on the internet, but he honestly cares about diving and people's safety, as evident to anyone that picks up a phone and talks to the guy. I am a stroke and he is a dick, but we still care about improving diving, each in our own charming way. I am sorry you can't put your pride and ego aside to better your diving JT. Second, only one individual in AUE has ever purchased *any* scooter from George, and that was for caves. There just was no need as a couple of our guys have several already. George was gracious enough to unconditionally loan several "wreck" scooters to us, though currently we only have one wreck scooter. When I inquired about the responsibilty for fixing a broken scooter should something happen (as I couldn't afford to pay for a new one), he told me to not worry about anything. In fact, he wanted us to try and bust it. He was interested if the new winding would burn up the brushboard. I told George straight up that I would tell him exactly how the scooter performed and acknowledged that they were prototype. I also told him before accepting the scooter that I would tell it like it is and not hide anything, should anyone ask. Further, I told him I was not comfortable with continually and blatantly endorsing any product, hence the lack of kudos to date. He did not place any restrictions or conditions on me, in case you are wondering. In fact, I probably carry a bit of Irvine baggage around with me to the point that I was hoping the scooter would be a miserable failure so I could slam him should I tragically get infected with "JT Syndrome." Unfortunately, George let me down in this respect as the scooters have worked like a champ. The first scooter he quickly set up for us and had not sealed the compartment as he wanted us to take it with us in the water that weekend; the thing was hours old when it first got wet. That one worked fine and may have ended up with your group or somewhere else after he completed it. The next one (received the next week) I got has worked fine and we have put many, many dives on it. In fact, I think (but am not positive) we were busy diving these well before your guys were even playing with them in the quarries. Since you like chest beating so much and you are so fond about telling people how many more dives you do than everyone else, let me speak in your language and clue you in: we do more tech dives in a month than you do all year (my apologies to the U.S. Army for borrowing their motto). My thoughts on the "wreck" scooter: - It will not beat the Florida Current, though I don't know of any that can. I have been pushed back by a significant current (3kts+) or been stopped cold by the accelerated flow around the edges of a wreck. The speed is not significantly faster than a standard Gavin*. (*Citelli has a very fast standard Gavin that he constructed and I can gain a body length or two every 100 feet or so, but his is not really standard. I have run it against some other standard Gavins and it is a little more noticeable, but anyone understands that the motors are all not exactly the same. The increased speed is especially important on descent, as you have to be cognizant about keeping with your buddy on deep free-drops in heavy current.) - The HDPE scratches/gouges easier than the PVC, though this is mostly cosmetic. While you have to be careful of the edges of the tube on the PVC body, you have to be even moreso with the HDPE. - The struts have held up very well. We wondered if this would be a weak spot of the scooter, but they have easily endured the abuse. - The reduction in weight and size at first does not seem significant, but it makes a difference on a small boat. It also makes it easy to lay in your lap while waiting for deployment on the gunwale. - The burn time appears to be about the same as a standard Gavin. I think I am getting 50 minutes of continuous burn time though it is hard to tell starting and stopping as we do on wreck dives. In any case, it is more than enough for 2-3 typical wreck dives. - Other than that, the scooter has been very sweet. We have had *zero* problems with ours. FWIW, if I primarily/frequently dove off small boats and did not cave dive, I would go with the wreck scooter. The standard Gavin is bulletproof. I don't know or don't care about your issues with parts and service. I only know that I could ask George a question anytime and get a response ASAP should I need it, and as I stated before, I was not even a paying customer. "did you notice he has not answered the Mike Pizzo thing, we know that Mike dives with the AUE group" Mike Pizzio has been on two open-boat trips with us, the exact same number of trips you have done with us JT. Unlike you, I consider Mike a good friend. I don't agree with some aspects of his diving (in particular gear), but he is solid in the water and exhibits good fundamental skills -- also, unlike you. Mike is a big boy and free to either dive as he wishes, or perhaps further embrace some of our diving preferences. In either case, I will still consider him a good friend. As many people have stated, Joe Citelli does not smoke. Period. You did not see him smoke when you were down here unless you were experiencing some residual effects from your past "experiments." Either show us a picture of Joe hanging out with Joe Camel or pick some other lie that might be a tad more believeble. As for the "AUE accident" you keep dredging up, I see you are having fun distorting the facts and making a mountain out of a molehill. So be it. I could keep trying to correct you but it just ain't worth it. Stupid is as stupid does. Go ahead and have fun continuing to lash out at others and (borrowing your favorite euphamism) bashing people's dicks. I can't play any longer and I am sure most people on the list are bored with these antics. This is the primary reason the UWEX list was formed and why it is so well-received. FWIW, George is still a dick and I am still a stroke -- we know, we know.... BTW, I came across an old e-mail that compared you to Darth Vader or something. That was truely funny but a bit off. You are more like Yoda -- not because of skills but because you have the same dyslexic speech pattern as that freak. "Ah, stupid this JT one is." Dive safe (I really mean that JT). Michael C. Barnette Association of Underwater Explorers Because it's there...somewhere...maybe. http://www.mikey.net/aue _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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