Mike I take exception to your little diatribe here. Any time a tech diver
has a near death experience (and from what I understand he would have been
dead if he hadn't had someone just happen to be nearby who knew what in fuck
he was doing) I want to know about it. Why? Because it might be MY ASS next
time and I need to know what happened.

On my Trimix website, do you know what the runaway most popular section is?
The AQUACorps accident pages. You call it "rubbernecking" and "morbid
curiosity." I call it "learning from other peoples mistakes." You are a fool
if you don't ask "what the fuck happened."

And that crap you emailed to Dave, it was just more bullshit. Saying that
these "experts" of yours determined that Becky had an AGE is such crap. Who
the fuck are these "experts" of yours who can diagnose a patient from 2000
miles away from just what you told them? I'm calling you on that crap, Mike.

Mike, it's time you had a coming to Jesus. You guys are doing your "same
ocean" shit and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I
always wondered if you would fess up or cover up. Now I know.

You have given JT shit over what he has experienced but there is a
difference. JT has the balls to tell people of what he learned in order to
help other people learn from his and other's mistakes. You, on the other
hand, cover it up because of your big fucking ego.

I find it a "tad worrisome" that you care so little about your fellow divers
as to brush this off as some sort of inconsequential non-issue, not worthy
of your time. If Eric had not happed by the fellow he would have disappeared
and boy would you be doing some fancy footwork to keep that under the
covers.

What I'd really like to see is Doc Grogan talking to this fellow so that he
can compare the TOX incident that Becky had to what occurred down there.
Most often in these cases the diver just floats away or winds up on the
bottom, nobody can figure out what really happened. To have a survivor of a
AGE or TOX to talk to is really important for our collective database. I
want to know what he felt before he passed out, how he felt on the bottom,
how his bottles were marked, if he did a unintentional ascent and then
dropped back down, or what. Not the whitewash BS you report below.

Get it together, Mike, how can you promote AUE as being in a leadership
position in Techdiving if you do bullshit like this. This really gives your
group a black eye.

   Jim

>>>> 
>>>> I told Widen the very same thing.  I offered to give any details to those
>>>> that wish to know them.  Instead you post this bullshit, proving you don't
>>>> care about the details. you guys don't care about any "lesson" you just
>>>> have a morbid curiousity - like a bunch of rubber-neckers on I-95.
>>>> 
>>>> 

>JT-
>Again, you are wasting my time.  As I mentioned in the e-mails to Widen, I
>fully acknowledge that shit happens.  I have never said my dives were
>perfect.  However, I am not a drama queen, nor am I constantly plagued
>with problems on my dives.  There is a big difference to covering
>something up, and just not posting it to the lists.  I have followed this
>up with numerous pulmonary and hyperbaric physicians and I have freely
>discussed this with anyone that had brought it up, such as with Mr. David
>Widen.
>Furthermore, there is a huge difference between this incident and the
>incident with Tai, so go fish somewhere else.
>So, since you are posting my private response to you, why don't you post
>the e-mails I sent to Widen *verbatim* where I freely discussed the events
>and why I candidly stated why it would not be posted to the list, which
>you are so gloriously illustrating?  Nah, that would help prove my point.
>Listen, you deserve no repsonse or explanation from me.  We could easily
>get in a battle here that would serve absolutely no purpose.  If it will
>make you feel better, go right ahead and try and "smash my dick."  I could
>care less about you and I could care less about George.  I have nothing
>further to say to you as you are a waste of time.
>Mike
>


Mike

I think the assumption of AGE is in correct. It does not fit the situation
with Becky at all. It may will you guy since I do not really any of the
details. If there is some other physical situation at work here, it needs to
be discussed openly and get the opinions of knowledgable diving medical
folks. If what happened to him is the same as Becky, then it could happen to
me, you or anyone.

What I have heard from the event does not fit AGE at all. I also question
this individual condition and improvement from O2 treatment if it was AGE.

If it is a procedural issue, do you have the experience in house to improve
it to the best point? If not then you may need to confer with others that
may have the needed insight and experiences to assist in the correction or
improvement.

Let others learn and avoid the same mistake(s) or issue(s). If there are
some monsters waiting for others, we need to ID to help me, you, and other
avoid this. We now have two events in less than one year that sound some
what similar. I and others need to know more of the condition or let someone
like Wendell eval for similarities and cause.

Thanks for the info. Look at publishing for open discussion.

Work load and tasking - I think we all have our overload running high these
days but this is important to us all.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Barnette [mailto:aocfishman@ho*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:01 PM
To: dwiden@co*.ne*
Subject: Re: AUE


Hi David-
If you know the rumors, odds are you know the details.  We will not
conclusively know what happened, but we personally discussed this with three
top-notch diving physiologists the day after the incident.  They all agreed
that the most likely scenario is an AGE.  Odds are, this is exactly what
happened to Becky also, not O2 toxicity.  We are still waiting to hear back
on the individual's PFO test.  It will be a shock if it is a PFO, as he has
done a lot of deep dives, many with much more aggressive schedules than on
the day of the incident.  However, the docs said that is just one possible
way this could have occurred.  A hundred things could be going on in the
body that could precipitate this.  It could also be a harbinger of something
amiss in the indiviudal, which is a tad worriesome.
There was nothing really leading up to the event.  He surfaced, and within
seconds the hammer dropped.  We had a very quick response, however I did not
witness any of it as I had a long bottom time and had a bit more deco to
conduct.  It was not until someone splashed and notified my buddy and I, was
I aware of the situation.
The facts are the individual did 25 minutes on the bottom.  18/40/42 bottom
mix.  EANx 50 and 100% deco.  Excellent physical shape.  Well rested.  Well
hydrated.  Easy dive.  Very conservative tables.  Surfaced.  Pow.
The guys on the surface had him on the boat and treating him with O2 in very
short order.  However, I was not there so I only know what was told to me
after the fact.
We have discussed this internally and are addressing the event in the way we
dive, to the extent possible.

I am sure you already have more information than this.  I do not have time
to post more or get in a long obtuse discussion about it on the lists as I
have a lot going on now.

Cheers,
Mike


>From: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@co*.ne*>
>Reply-To: <dwiden@co*.ne*>
>To: "'Michael Barnette'" <aocfishman@ho*.co*>
>Subject: AUE
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:26:17 -0500
>
>Mike
>
>The rumor mill has it that an event occurred on one of the dives. Not all
>dives are book perfect. Maybe you could post the facts for discuss, lessons
>learned, and to help others from do the same or similar things leading up
>to
>the event. We are not looking to hammer or flame but to discuss and improve
>safety and knowledge. This is part of the prevention process and program we
>all need to keep the sport as safe and unregulated as we can.
>
>David
>




Michael C. Barnette
Association of Underwater Explorers
Because it's there...somewhere...maybe.
http://www.mikey.net/aue


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