Dave, now you are 10 for 12 ( ten attacks out of 12 posts) and 2 attacking
responses to private posts. I don't like you or you friends, that is why I
posted privately to you - to remind you of that , and to remind you that so
long as you and your friends persist is bullshiting about me, I will be here
to keep turning up the heat.

Steve Irving, former WKPP diver, said on these lists years ago, " We will be
glad to stop telling the truth about you as soon as you stop lying about
us". That about sums it up for the last 14 years in cave diving since the
WKPP existed, with or without me.

Irving stopped telling the truth because he stopped diving and does not get
lied about anymore , since he is no longer a threat. The rest of us still
get it constantly from people like Rennaker, and it gets repeated by the
gleeful crowd of resentful nobodies who listen to him ( that be you ,
Dave ).

It is pretty funny that all any of you can come up with about me has nothing
to do with me, is totally untrue, or does not apply. My complaints about the
dive instructional community, and my contempt ( you were right about that)
for them, is s function of WHAT THEY DO NOW.

I don't care if Bill Rennaker is a retired auto worker turned cave
instructor who lives in a  wheeless house trailer near Peacock springs. I do
think that being an enormous fat slob who has had a heart attack is not
exactly prime instructor material, but my real beef with this one ( and I
will do the rest of your list of buddies later), besides his lying about me
and JJ ( got on here an said JJ killed a student , was forced to retract it
by Lamar Hires, called the cops on me saying I threatened to kill him , and
when the sheriff realized Rennaler was a lying mental case, he asked me if I
wanted to press charges - and the list goes on and one), is that he teaches
that the buddy system is all wrong, that he does not understand correct
methods or gear, and says things on here like "put your worst reg on the
long hose ( and of course, stuff it), "know when to leave your buddy" -
especially important for a husband and wife team according to Bill, "who's
the most important diver", and a host of other moronic misdirects and
machinations of reality that leave the student with no ability to progress
without complete retraining.

This is not rocket science, and these are not rocket scientists. The
situation got so bad in the opinion of me and JJ that we first laid down the
law in WKPP and used it to train people, and then JJ took that and formed
GUE to get that information outside of the WKPP and to people who can't come
dive with WKKP to learn.

By the way, I have totally discontinued the practice of trying to teach
anyone who is not already 1000% on board in the WKPP, and I don't let anyone
near the dive sites now until they pass my tests. GUE is now the only route
to learning this stuff first hand.

Dave, you have successfully wasted my time again with your petty nonsense.
Now I have to go to work and get ready to trade for the day. That means you
win, everyone else loses, because I do not have time to put out any of the
deco information , other than one preliminary thing  I wrote to get the
discussion started.

Send us all some more of your misinformed bullshit and personal attacks so I
can waste some more time answering them. Your will be revered in N Florida
for "standing up to George". Keep it up, keep wasting everyone's time. Also
give me the name of one more of your prized instructors so I can tell you
what my issues are with that one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Sams [mailto:dsams@al*.co*]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:02 PM
To: trey@ne*.co*; Techdiver List; Cavers List
Subject: RE: [Cavers] Aloha to the Group * Dave Sams*


Aloha George,

Again, George, you're making another fallacious argument: A hypocrite is
someone who publicly announces their belief in and strict adherence to a
philosophy or creed or principle and then proceeds to violate that
adherence (or defends and excuses another believer's violation). In the
biblical sense, this is known as sin and is that for which we seek
forgiveness. As applied to DIR, for example, this could be solo diving.
Does that clarify the point?

If you knew me, George, you'd know I don't write anything that I'm
unwilling to say face-to-face: I too dislike behind-the-scenes
maneuvering -- that's why I'm posting your reply and my response -- let's
keep it all out in the open.

Perhaps I should remind you, at this point, that the original message I
posted on Cavers; 1) was not directed at you, 2) did not mention you, and
3) was simply an "Aloha, I'm new to the list". You chose to reply with
personally derogatory comments -- even though you've never met me and
there was no reason to make such comments. Thus, if you're looking for
someone who "thrive[s] on bullshit like that...on the lists" where "it
makes you a big hero", I suggest you look in the mirror.

As far as your well reasoned and balanced analysis of the instructional
styles and deficiencies of the "idiots" -- I await it with baited breath.

Dave


>George then replied:

>You are a complete hypocrite. 9 for 11 now. You think I should "see a
>doctor", try telling me that to my face you asshole.You and your little
>buddies thrive on bullshit like that - behind my back or on the lists where
>you think it makes you a big hero.
>
>When I get the time, I will take those idiots apart carefully on cavers,
and
>remind everyone that you are the cause.


>>Dave wrote [to the list]:

>>Aloha George,

>>I believe you're missing my point(s) which are (briefly): 1) I'm not the
>>most knowledgeable or experienced diver on the list; 2) I think GUE is a
>>very good agency and applaud it's high training standards, and; 3) I
>>don't hate you and am not your enemy.

[long analysis of George's previous message snipped]
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