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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C17A80.91B14140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chief, Who cares what the strokes buy? The players know the score. Trout ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Trey=20 To: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com ; Cavers@Ca*.Co* ; Quest@Gu*. Com=20 Cc: Wkpp@Ya*. Com=20 Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: [cavers] Scooter Debunking As per the usual, Rod Nairnes is taking the tack with me that everyone = else takes when failing to come up with an intelligible argument against = what I am saying or doing. Below I have taken some misinformation, lies, = and complete bullshit from Rod's website about my scooter and have put = it in italics in a different color. My comments are in this font. FROM ROD's SITE in green italics, my comments in black :=20 improvements over the Gavin, the following is a short list that = immediately come to mind, I'm sure there's many more... 1) The first big difference is that the battery pack & motor clip together inside the UV-18 creating a single unit. In the Gavin my buddy dives, the battery pack is loose, simply resting on top of the motor. This makes charging the batteries and working on the scooter, placing weights for buoyancy and trim etc much easier with the UV-18. complete and utter baloney. The SS scooter is hard wired to the motor = compartment with hardware store crap. The wiring then runs up through = the battery pack and connects at the top. To take this mess apart is a = nightmare. The connections are cheap crap and the upper connector is = cheap. We have an access port in the motor lid for vacuum testing and = inspection so the this lid does not need to be unlatched or the = connections disturbed to check it. To visually see the whole motor, you = merely unlatch the lid and lift it off.=20 We are using $68 worth of gold plated superconnectors to plug the = battery packs into the motor lid with sealing fittings. We do not = constantly unplug our scooter, we pin the trigger for transport. We do = not want to wear out these critical connections. There is no loosening = of these connections. They are the highest quality connectors available. = Our battery pack is a unit that can be changed out in seconds. To = charge the scooter, there is a charging connector under the nose cone. = The nose cone locks the batteries in position. I make three choices of = nose cone : nylon, pvc, and hdpe for any of the scooters. ) The UV-18 appears to be manufactured to finer tolerances, so that the internal bulkheads only just slide inside the outer shell and presumable provide extra support if the outer compresses at all. The outer "shell" of the Gavin is PVC pipe with a 3/8 wall. I would = withstand 300 feet with NO bulkheads even if the pvc bulkheads were not = part of the battery pack. HDPE is like butter, and even in the lights we = make we have to bulkhead that little canister or is crushes immediately. = I can bulkhead mine for any depth,and have them set now for 500 feet. = The PVC body is lighter , thinner, accommodates more inside room, is = stiffer, unbreakable and if you rip out the latches or otherwise find a = way to scar a sealing surface, a new body costs 40 bucks - big deal. Or = you can weld it with hot air and rescrew it or sand off the scar. When = hdpe is used for underground pipe, they have to put a V shield over it = because the mere weight of the earth over it crushes it. Not the right = material for a scooter body. We get away with it in the lights due to = the small diameter and bulkheading ever few inches ( lid, bottom and = between the batteries). I use the pvc body on my hdpe scooters as well. 3) The UV-18 has a simple connector routed to the top of the scooter, which makes switching the unit on simply a case of popping the lid and plugging the connectors together. In the Gavin scooter the battery connectors are hidden under the battery pack, so you have to take all = the outer shell off and struggle with the weight of the batteries. = This has lead to my buddy connecting everything while on shore and leaving his scooter "live" all the time we're on his RIB. More nonsense: to get to the connectors you merely stand the Gavin on = its nose and unclip the tail. You can completely dismantle a Gavin in = less than one minute. You can change the motor out in 2 minutes, you can = replace any part in less than 2 minutes. The battery connectors as well = as the reed switch plugs run through openings in the side of the motor = lid and plug in. They are set so that the battery pack above it prevents = them from coming off. A little more thought from REAL experience scooter = diving for years in real dives where the scooters are truly life support = equipment went into these details. 4) The UV-18 comes with a throttle where as the Gavin is operated by a plastic trigger. The throttle works much better, is more comfortable and is much more robust (it also comes with a lock screw). The trigger on my friend's scooter broke on the 2nd or 3rd use. More nonsense: there is nothing to "break" the trigger. Ask anyone who = does real diving why we use the handles and trigger, and why we would = never use a twist throttle. Ask Buchaly and Waldbrenner who hold the = European record. Ask Jarrod Jablonski. Ask anyone who does real diving = what the many tricks of the trigger are. Ask yourself why the best in = the business do things the way they do, and ask yourself if the guys ( = WKPP ) who developed this , the Halcyon RB, the lights, the wings, = backplate , the rigging style, DIR , teamwork, backup lights and every = other thing that is the best if we would make or do something that was = not optimal when it is so easy for us to make or do anything we want any = time we want? You saw how long it took me to make a proper version of = the SS - about two weeks from the time I got sick of Rod's lies and his = little buddies pumping out anonymous lies ( which Alton is working on = now, so we should have a name for you all soon from that nonsense). Go to http://www.gavinscooters.com to see the scooters in detail, go = the http://www.WKPP.org to see them in use, or go to http://www.gue.com = to see more pictures and uses of these devices. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C17A80.91B14140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chief,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Who cares what the strokes buy? = The players=20 know the score.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trout</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dtrey@ne*.co* href=3D"mailto:trey@ne*.co*">Trey</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com">Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com</A> ; <A = title=3Dcavers@ca*.co* = href=3D"mailto:Cavers@Ca*.Co*">Cavers@Cavers.Com</A>=20 ; <A title=3Dquest@gu*.co* href=3D"mailto:Quest@Gu*. Com">Quest@Gu*. = Com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A = title=3Dwkpp@ya*.co*=20 href=3D"mailto:Wkpp@Ya*. Com">Wkpp@Ya*. Com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 01, = 2001 7:37=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [cavers] Scooter = Debunking</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>As = per the usual,=20 Rod Nairnes is taking the tack with me that everyone else takes when = failing=20 to come up with an intelligible argument against what I am saying or = doing.=20 Below I have taken some misinformation, lies, and complete bullshit = from Rod's=20 website about my scooter and have put it in italics in a different = color. My=20 comments are in this font.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>FROM = ROD's SITE in=20 green italics, my comments in black : </SPAN></FONT><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D774170013-01122001><FONT=20 color=3D#008000><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <P><EM><FONT color=3D#008000>improvements over the Gavin, the = following is a=20 short list that<SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001> = </SPAN></FONT></EM><FONT=20 color=3D#008000><EM>immediately come to mind, I'm sure there's many=20 more...</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>1) The first big difference is that the = battery=20 pack & motor clip</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>together inside the UV-18 creating a = single unit.=20 In the Gavin my</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>buddy dives, the battery pack is loose, = simply=20 resting on top of</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>the motor. This makes charging the = batteries and=20 working on the</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>scooter, placing weights for buoyancy and = trim etc=20 much easier</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>with the UV-18.</EM></FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>complete and utter baloney. The SS = scooter=20 is hard wired to the motor compartment with hardware store crap. The = wiring=20 then runs up through the battery pack and connects at the top. To take = this=20 mess apart is a nightmare. The connections are cheap crap and the = upper=20 connector is cheap. We have an access port in the motor lid for vacuum = testing=20 and inspection so the this lid does not need to be unlatched or the=20 connections disturbed to check it. To visually see the whole motor, = you merely=20 unlatch the lid and lift it off. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>We are using $68 worth of gold = plated=20 superconnectors to plug the battery packs into the motor lid with = sealing=20 fittings. We do not constantly unplug our scooter, we pin the trigger = for=20 transport. We do not want to wear out these critical connections. = There is no=20 loosening of these connections. They are the highest quality = connectors=20 available. Our battery pack is a unit that can be changed out in=20 seconds. To charge the scooter, there is a charging connector = under the=20 nose cone. The nose cone locks the batteries in position. I make three = choices=20 of nose cone : nylon, pvc, and hdpe for any of the = scooters.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>) = The UV-18=20 appears to be manufactured to finer tolerances, so</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>that the internal bulkheads only just = slide inside=20 the outer shell</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>and presumable provide extra support if = the outer=20 compresses at all.</EM></FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>The outer "shell" of the Gavin is = PVC pipe=20 with a 3/8 wall. I would withstand 300 feet with NO bulkheads even if = the pvc=20 bulkheads were not part of the battery pack. HDPE is like butter, and = even in=20 the lights we make we have to bulkhead that little canister or is = crushes=20 immediately. I can bulkhead mine for any depth,and have them set now = for 500=20 feet. The PVC body is lighter , thinner, accommodates more inside = room, is=20 stiffer, unbreakable and if you rip out the latches or otherwise find = a way to=20 scar a sealing surface, a new body costs 40 bucks - big deal. Or you = can weld=20 it with hot air and rescrew it or sand off the scar. When hdpe is used = for=20 underground pipe, they have to put a V shield over it because the mere = weight=20 of the earth over it crushes it. Not the right material for a scooter = body. We=20 get aw</SPAN><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001>ay with it in the lights = due to=20 the small diameter and bulkheading ever few inches ( lid, bottom and = between=20 the batteries). I use the pvc body on my hdpe scooters as = well.</SPAN></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>3) The UV-18 has a simple connector = routed to the=20 top of the scooter,</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>which makes switching the unit on simply = a case of=20 popping the lid and</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>plugging the connectors together. In the = Gavin=20 scooter the battery</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008000 size=3D2><EM>connectors are = hidden under the=20 battery pack, so you have to take all<SPAN = class=3D532544812-01122001><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D3> =20 </FONT></SPAN></EM></FONT><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>the outer shell = off and=20 struggle with the weight of the batteries. This has</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>lead to my buddy connecting everything = while on=20 shore and leaving his</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>scooter "live" all the time we're on his=20 RIB.</EM></FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN = class=3D774170013-01122001>More=20 nonsense: to get to the connectors you merely stand the Gavin on its = nose and=20 unclip the tail. You can completely dismantle a Gavin in less than one = minute.=20 You can change the motor out in 2 minutes, you can replace any part in = less=20 than 2 minutes. The battery connectors as well as the reed switch = plugs run=20 through openings in the side of the motor lid and plug in. They are = set so=20 that the battery pack above it prevents them from coming off. A little = more=20 thought from REAL experience scooter diving for years in real dives = where the=20 scooters are truly life support equipment went into these=20 details.</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><EM><FONT color=3D#008000></FONT></EM> </P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>4) The UV-18 comes with a throttle where = as the=20 Gavin is operated by a</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>plastic trigger. The throttle works much = better, is=20 more comfortable</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>and is much more robust (it also comes = with a lock=20 screw). The trigger</EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=3D#008000><EM>on my friend's scooter broke on the 2nd = or 3rd=20 use.</EM></FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN = class=3D774170013-01122001>More=20 nonsense: there is nothing to "break" the trigger. Ask anyone who does = real=20 diving why we use the handles and trigger, and why we would never use = a twist=20 throttle. Ask Buchaly and Waldbrenner who hold the European record.=20 Ask Jarrod Jablonski. Ask anyone who does real diving what = the many=20 tricks of the trigger are. Ask yourself why the best in the business = do things=20 the way they do, and ask yourself if the guys ( WKPP ) who developed = this ,=20 the Halcyon RB, the lights, the wings, backplate , the rigging style, = DIR ,=20 teamwork, backup lights and every other thing that is the best if we = would=20 make or do something that was not optimal when it is so easy for us to = make or=20 do anything we want any time we want? You saw how long it took me to = make a=20 proper version of the SS - about two weeks from the time I got sick of = Rod's=20 lies and his little buddies pumping out anonymous lies ( which Alton = is=20 working on now, so we should have a name for you all soon from that=20 nonsense).</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN = class=3D774170013-01122001>Go to <A=20 href=3D"http://www.gavinscooters.com">http://www.gavinscooters.com</A> = to see=20 the scooters in detail, go the <A=20 href=3D"http://www.WKPP.org">http://www.WKPP.org</A> to see them in = use, or go=20 to <A href=3D"http://www.gue.com">http://www.gue.com</A> to see more = pictures=20 and uses of these devices.</SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN=20 class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN=20 class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN=20 class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=3D774170013-01122001><SPAN=20 = class=3D774170013-01122001></SPAN></SPAN> </P></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></= BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C17A80.91B14140-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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