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The new line of SP's are the worst yet in my opinion and the old 250's where better but you still needed to at least change the mushroom retaining ring etc. to dive them. The mk20's have always been bullshit from a maintenance standpoint and the shims where always there. Does anybody know how many times SP changed the piston design or materials in the last four years? Here's another question for you SP techs If I was going to buy a new MK20 and I had a choice between having one with three shims or one with zero shims or one with two shims or one with one shims what reg should I buy????? Cam are you there? -----Original Message----- From: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*> To: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*> Cc: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Lee Bell"<leebell@ix*.ne*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com Date: Tue Oct 30 04:20:46 PST 2001 Subject: Re: ScubaPro-motions >Jim, I have never had any SP regs other than the MK15 and 20 with G -250's.. >I do have R 190 internal tube and lever in my rebreather. I do not know >about the MK10 or any of their other products, and don't need to when there >is Apeks and Oceanic. > >What I said was that the G250 is the easiest breathing reg, and I use it on >the bottles which I have to breathe for a long time, like my oxygen or 50%.. >I also said that the 15 or 20 with G250 makes a great safety reg because it >lasts for ever in the cave where we leave them , and works when called upon >in that application. > >I have been using Apeks for ten years. I gave up on Poseidon after having to >have custom parts made. I gave up on Scuba Pro other than in the >applications I discussed due to constant repair problems and the high IP. I >settled on Apeks and Oceanic after years of trying the list above. > >If I did not make that clear, I apologize to anyone who thought I was >recommending these as standard regs. They are a poor choice. Keep in mind >that SP approached me and asked me to use them, gave me some etc. I told >them I did not need any, but would try them if they would make them >available to my whole team at good prices. They did . I tried a set on my >back and stopped that after one dive. I already knew to use them on >safeties and deco bottles, so continued to buy them for that. > >Jim, I have some 30 safeties in various caves right now with them on it. I >have about 20 Apeks regs, about 20 Oceanic, and about 10 Poseidon with Apeks >seconds and custom internals and stems. > >Also, if I make a mistake, like dicking with SP regs, I am the first to >admit it. If you have the money and can stand the downtime, buy a Ferrari. >If you want none of that for less money, get a Z06 - go faster for less >money and less maintenance. Live and learn. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] >Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:19 PM >To: Trey >Cc: terry michael; Lee Bell; techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: ScubaPro-motions > > >George I have you call you on this one. You once had nothing but nice, >glowing things to say about Scuba Pro regs. I was a little curious about >this at the time as, while I do think that they are good regs, they do >tend to be a little finniky. You need to rebuild them every year >religiously, sometime more than once a year and SP does not like to sell >repair parts to individuals. I am happy with my Mk10+ 1'sts and G250 >seconds, they have done me good service over the years. They breath fine >and I have not had to adjust mine. I use Beuchats on my stages and like >them as well. > >To be fair you have also mentioned Apeks, Beuchat and Oceanic over the >years, too, but SP was really pushed hard. You now say that they are >dogshit and everybody should dump their SP's and run out and purchase >Apeks. And of course you have always used custom modified Posiden 1st's. > >I am a little annoyed as, lets face it, your recommendations are gold. >What George Irvine says on Techdiver and other forums causes a stampede >of divers to go out and purchase what George Irvine says is good. And >the reason for that is is that you are nearly always right and generally >people who dive know to trust your recommendations. > >So my question is, what caused you to do a 180 on SP? Are they really >dogshit or did someone at SP piss you off? Did they used to not use >shims, or have you discoved a major defect after constant use? Other >than paying through the nose for maintenance are SP's really all that >bad? Straighten me out, George. > > Jim > > >On Sunday, October 28, 2001, at 06:41 PM, Trey wrote: > >> >> Terry, I don't know about the 380, never had one, but I do know that >> the MK >> 20 has a ridiculous shim system for adjustment. If you do not take the >> shims >> out, the pressure is way too high, and even after you do, you can not >> get it >> down to 120 on most of them. Even when you do get the pressure down to >> an >> acceptable level it does not last long, and begins to come back up >> again. >> Some of our guys have tried altering the spring by compressing it for a >> long >> time in a vise (futile bullshit), but most of our guys did the right >> thing - >> Ebay, under the PT Barnum Theory. >> >> I still have some , but i use them as safety bottle regs since they do >> last >> being left in water,I can operate the valve when, not if they fail, >> and the >> only way a G 250 will work twice in a row is if it is not allowed to dry >> out. An expensive mistake, even at the price of 125 charged to me by >> Scuba >> Pro for each set. I still got fucked if you add in the repair bills. >> >> Any new purchases by me are Apeks or Oceanic ( they have a some reliable >> stuff that has lasted me with no problems). I have no repair parts for >> either Apeks or Oceanic, and have never needed any. For Scuba Pro I >> have a >> huge bag of parts given to me by the Navy when they threw in the towel >> on >> this crap. I have had to use most of them and spent some 600 bucks last >> year >> alone getting these things fixed. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*] >> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 10:12 AM >> To: Lee Bell; Trey; techdiver@aquanaut.com >> Subject: Re: Re: Scout bulbs >> >> >>> stainless plate and 18 lb lift wing, breath the long hose on a Scuba >>> Pro >>> Mk-20/G250 with a R380 on a necklace. >> >> R380? Isn?t that great little performer a stroke reg? It's a dead give >> away >> in my opinion, R380 = STROKER. How many spacers you got in the Mk20's >> anyway? ..he he he ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Lee Bell"<leebell@ix*.ne*.co*> >> To: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com >> Date: Wed Oct 24 06:31:54 PDT 2001 >> Subject: Re: Scout bulbs >> >>> Trey wrote: >>> >>>> "heat from shorted batteries" ? >>> >>> Yep. Heat from shorted batteries. It's a pretty routine event. Salt >> water >>> shorts the battery and, presto, it heats up. It's a pretty well known >>> problem. I'm surprised you didn't know about it. >>> >>>> Hello, Mom? Lee, have you ever actually been diving, and do you have >>>> any >>>> experience with anything other than getting on dive lists and saying >>> stupid , >>>> misinformed, ridiculous things and then trying to pretend you know >>>> what >>> you are >>>> talking about? >>> >>> Hello, Trey? Did you forget that some of us dive in salt water? >>> >>> You seem to have a short memory or, perhaps, don't bother to read what >>> others have to say, so I'll repeat it for you. Yes, I go diving. I >> started >>> in 1962 after a home course given by a YMCA instructor and have been >>> active >>> every since. My first card came from NAUI in 1969 when it became hard >>> to >>> get air without one. I did my cave diving back in the mid to late >>> 60s. It >>> was nothing like what you're doing now, but it was extreme for >>> recreational >>> divers of the time. I do something in the range of 50 dives a year. I >>> didn't record anything for the first 30 years and am still not real >>> good >>> about doing so. I've had a boat of my own since I was 6. If I count >>> my >>> kayak and inflatable, I have 4 diveable boats at the moment and have >>> made >> an >>> offer on another. I live in the same county as you do, know some of >>> the >>> same people and, when I use a commercial operator, dive off of some of >>> the >>> same boats you do. I dive almost exclusively salt water. I have a >>> Haclyon >>> stainless plate and 18 lb lift wing, breath the long hose on a Scuba >>> Pro >>> Mk-20/G250 with a R380 on a necklace. I have two scout lights on the >>> harness at all times. I also have a Halcyon aluminum plate that I'm >>> configuring for dive travel. All of this was purchased from a store >>> you >>> know well, it's right next door to the Southport Raw Bar. Remember the >>> place? It's called Brownies. >>> >>> My Scout light flooded, so did another posters. When mine did, I went >>> back >> >>> to Brownies. They are the ones who told me about the problem >>> reflectors >>> from UK. I didn't come up with it, I just repeated it here. I also >>> said >>> that the light is robust and that it was replaced promptly as I >>> expected it >>> would be. I believe I had some nice things to say about the light, the >>> shop, the the manufacturer and the CEO of the company. Which of these >>> do >>> you not agree with? >>> >>>> I know the history of all of these pieces of equipment and am >>>> involved in >>>> the evolution of every one of them. Just to correct your other piece >>>> of >>>> bullshit, there are two basic similar light heads that those guys >>>> make, >>> and >>>> one will not fit where the other is designed to go - at all. >>> >>> Well, then I suppose the folks at Brownies were wrong. Be sure to tell >> them >>> next time you stop into the shop. >>> >>>> The problem is as I was saying, and a leaking light needs to be >>>> returned >>> or thrown >>>> away, not taken on dives. >>> >>> You seem to be having a problem with reading. Nobody, and certainly >>> not >> me, >>> said that a leaking light should be taken on a dive, ever. I said I >>> returned mine and it was replaced. It seems that we agree on a key >> element. >>> Not bad for a moron. Perhaps you throw away $80 lights that fail, but >>> most >>> of us prefer to return them for a refund or replacement, as I did. It >>> also >>> seems that I have a higher opinion of the Scout light than you do. I >>> don't >>> expect a light that expensive to fail the second time it hits the >>> water, as >>> mine did. I expected the light to work consistently and reliably >>> specifically because it was developed for an environment that is >> unforgiving >>> of equipment failures and is manufacturered by someone who appears to >>> care >>> about the quality of his products. When the light did not live up to >>> my >>> expectations, I looked into why and got an answer that satisfied me. >>> If it >>> had not, I would not be using Scout lights today. If the answer is >>> wrong, >>> then perhaps I should stop using them now. Is that your >>> recommendation? >>> Tell me quickly because I'm about to introduce another diver to >>> equipment >> JJ >>> makes and if there's a quality problem, I'd like to know about it. >>> >>>> You are not, do not, and have never been involved in anything but >> bullshit >>>> on the web. You are the best example of what Capt JT is always >> complaining >>>> about . >>> >>> No, I'm the best example of what you are always complaining about, a >>> diver >>> who bothers to think for himself and make his own informed decisions on >>> equipment and diving issues. You're just going to have to live with >>> the >>> fact that not everyone thinks that blindly following another, even if >>> it's >>> you, is a real great idea. I've learned a lot directly and indirectly >>> from >>> members of your team, but since I have no desire or expectation of >>> joining >>> your team, you'll just have to get over the fact that I can and will >>> think >>> and decide for myself. >>> >>> Lee >>> >>> -- >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver- >>> request@aq*.co*'. >> >> >> ___________________________________________________ >> GO.com Mail >> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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