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Agree Wendell Isaac Callicrate wrote: > > I have replied in private to people about pushing their ideas or fourth hand > information on issues that they have no experience/training/insight etc. and > feel like this one deserves some public response. I dont feel like dusting > off the ancient texts to quote specific lines but will in private if > neccessary. I want to make one thing very clear, this is definately > personal opinion but I think most agree with this. If you think you have a > serious diving or hypo/hyperbaric problem then need to seek immediate > medical attention. If their is no hyperbaric unit in the area have your > physician call Duke or NEDU. If you think because you are a TDI Deep Air, > IANTD Tech Scooter, EMT, DMT, Paramedic, Firefighter, Smokejumper, > Paratrooper, Chamber Tender, Italian Free-Diver, PADI Combat Swimmer, Rescue > Swimmer,MS Certified Systems Engineer, Rescue Diver, American Oilfield > Diver,and on and on, that you have the right to give medical consultation, > or develop treatment protocol you are big time wrong and deserve all the > liability that you just earned. Differential diagnosis - screw you. Good > Samaritan my ass. If you dont have the certificate on the wall of your > clinic shut your c--k holsters. You arent helping anyone. If you are not a > UMO, DMO, UHO, HMO, or whatever, someone with diving/hyperbaric medicine > specialty/sub, than you need to say to the diver that reports not feeling > right, "buddy, you should go to a chamber" - THE END- Giving the guy a Neuro > is a nicety for the chamber folks but chances are that your neuro isnt going > to be worth a shit as a baseline so save the time, call EMS, and give them > your O2 bottle. I am sure that there are plenty of folks waiting to scream > their exceptions about how they were to far out for USCG response and they > developed In Water Recompression protocol with a Full Face Mask and two 72s > of O2 - Good job-. We do make dives where someone on site is going to have > to make the call and I hope they are educated enough to make the right one. > You would have to press me pretty hard to put a SCUBA diver back in the > water after reporting symptoms. If you are within cell phone range of a > country that speaks English, talk to someone that knows better than you or > your instructor. If you are doing serious expedition/scientific diving you > better already have someone available. I have seen some really astute > speculations and guestimations about diagnosis/treatment in the last few > days. Im sorry Ive been working and havent had a chance to respond. > Between Navy Dive Manual, NEDU Reports and DAN/Duke research you should have > enough available information to at least give some factual advice no matter > how inappropriate you speaking about it is. Please run to the library or > phone to find some quotes to devalue the credibility of what I am saying. > At least you will be educating yourself and others instead of causing > injuries. > > >From: Jsuw@ao*.co* > >To: E-CAVERS@ya*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net > >Subject: Re: [E-CAVERS] BIG Bull and Squeeze > >Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:52:08 EDT > > > >'Symptoms persisted on or off O2, which is what's > >called an O2 challenge that is what all but eliminates > >DCS not a neuro exam.' > > > >Cliff: > > > >Oxygen challenge? > > > >One way to differentiate between AGE and DCS is that AGE may improve > >quickly > >with the use of O2. For example, an unconscious victim may regain > >consciousness. DCS is progressive, meaning its symptoms may get worse over > >time, and may NOT show improvement with the use of O2. (Even though oxygen > >is beneficial as a first aid treatment.) > > > >You may be confusing the "oxygen challenge", whatever that is, with a test > >of > >pressure. The test of pressure is done in a chamber when DCS is suspected. > >If the victim feels better when pressurized to say, 30', then the pain is > >probably DCS and NOT something such as overuse or a bruise. If there is no > >improvement at 30' or 60', then the problem is NOT DCS. > > > >Among other possibilities, vertigo is often associated with inner and > >middle > >ear problems. For example, rupturing an eardrum will allow water to enter > >the middle ear. This can result in immediate and severe vertigo until that > >water is warmed to body temperature. Once the vertigo passes, healing and > >prevention of infection are concerns that preclude diving for a short time. > >Other kinds of aural barotrauma may also occur. These may require other > >type > >of medical treatment. > > > >Vestibular DCS involving the inner ear causes vertigo, difficulty with > >balance, nausea and vomiting. I suspect this was what you had, especially > >since you did show improvement after a period of time on oxygen. > > > >Please understand that having one kind of DCS or even one kind of > >barotrauma > >does not mean you don't have another. Vestibular DCS, or any aural > >barotrauma can result in permanent hearing loss. > > > >Denial is a real issue in treating DCS. I recommend you at least call DAN > >to discuss what happened and get a real medical opinion. Ideally, you > >should have sought treatment immediately. > > > >The information I just provided is discussed in my recreational level > >(PADI/NAUI) rescue diver course. I do not have a medical background. In > >my > >opinion, if you are going to be doing tech dives, you need to have enough > >background to recognize the risks, and to know the signs, symptoms, and > >first > >aid for dive injuries, not to mention emergency management and prevention. > >Actually, that is true regardless of the diving you choose to do, but since > >the risks are greater in technical diving, it is even more necessary to > >have > >the proper understanding. > > > >Best, > >Jan > > > >In a message dated 9/27/01 9:26:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >cavecliff@ya*.co* writes: > > > > > > > Gina, Ania, Chris Toedt, William Wolk, Ray Blanchard, > > > Lesley Jacques, Jo, Al, Rich Lesperance, Will, Cathy, > > > Wendy and Butch (William please reasure him, all these > > > post's he can read, but he can't type) and anyone > > > concerned that I missed. > > > > > > Thankyou for your concern. > > > > > > All of my previous posts were on my palm phone using > > > the graffiti alphabet and the tiny keyboard screen and > > > that fat black toothpick in the dark in the back of my > > > bus parked in back of a certain dive shop in deerfield > > > beach. Which I explain for the simple reason that my > > > previous posts were a neurological test in and of > > > itself. This post I'm using a KEYBOARD what a > > > concept. > > > > > > Name's have been omited below, by design, those who > > > know, don't post and don't put 2+2 together and post. > > > > > > We splashed off the boat (I the instructor and a > > > student) My gas was 16/40, 50 and 100. Planned depth > > > was 210ft. I was carrying the rope to the float ball, > > > we got to about 170' could see the sand, no wreck. > > > All three of us looked, this is when I noticed the 4th > > > diver, or ooooooh sh.... that's a shark, a MFB Bull > > > shark, one guy thought he saw the wreck, my money was > > > on the shark, after his lead didn't pan out we headed > > > in the direction the shark discopeared, ah ha the > > > wreck. Eight minutes into the dive and a vigorous > > > swim, during which I let the up line go cause I wasn't > > > making any progress. My max depth was 190, we did no > > > major penetrations and called the dive at 20mins at > > > about 170'. The shark sighting made me want to stay > > > with the others. The student while deploying the lift > > > bag, totally lost bouyancy and by the time I checked > > > my depth guage it read 60' I stabalized bouyancy, shot > > > my bag, switched to 50% added a couple minutes to my > > > stop and regained my composure. The other two looked > > > to have reached 20' and then I saw one dragging the > > > other down back to about 40'. The remainder of deco > > > was uneventful at 20' I switched to 100% O2. Reading > > > from my slate; > > > > > > left 170' 20" > > > > > > Bouyancy event > > > switch to 50% (actually 54%) > > > Stable at 64' by 25" > > > Left 64' at 31" > > > Left 50' at 33" > > > Left 40' at 37" > > > Left 30' at 41" > > > Switch to 100% > > > Left 20' at 48" > > > Left 10' at 58" > > > hand over hand slow crawl to the surface. > > > > > > > > > No problems getting on the boat, approx. 10 minutes > > > later the other two divers returned and my symptoms > > > started, Dizzyness, sat down, then sat on deck, got on > > > O2, laid on the deck on O2 and if you asked me, the > > > boat was going in circles. No improvement on O2. > > > > > > > > > After the Capt. docked the boat the TDI instructor > > > trainer, DMT, EMT chamber operator for 4 yrs for NOAA, > > > 4 yrs for Marathon, cohart of Hyper Dick, did the > > > exams(not just some guy who happened to be around), > > > using a cuff and stethascope checked heart, lungs > > > performed tests. No other symptoms other than > > > dizzyness and nausea. No pain in joints no headache. > > > Symptoms persisted on or off O2, which is what's > > > called an O2 challenge that is what all but eliminates > > > DCS not a neuro exam. I also explained my symptoms to > > > my previous TDI tech instructor(adv nitrox and deco) > > > and the dive shop owner where I was parked. BTW I was > > > driven in my bus by the student, I couldn't stand. > > > All who heard or saw the facts first hand, agreed. > > > Mild barotramua to inner ear. Two hrs after 95% > > > recovery. Now 32 hours later I feel 100%, I drove the > > > bus from Deerfield Beach up 95 and over to Orlando, no > > > symptoms, no pain > > > > > > It's over, I'm fine. LL post away... > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Clifford Sifton > > > > > > Two dreams "to discover a new cave system" AND > > > "to discover a new wreck" > > > > > > 215-432-8007 > > > > > > > > >Visit my web page with underwater and other photos at > >http://members.aol.com/jsuw3/index.html > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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