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Bryon, I have never owned a piece of gear I did not pay for, that is why I can talk shit about anything with the truth, I don't owe anyone anything...... Having said that, gear will always be improved, the up grade of the SS has been done I've been told..... A wreck will never be like a cave and what we do with our scooters is nothing you could understand, a wreck diver who leaves his stages to be picked up later as he scooters by is as good as dead.... your a fool for even trying to connect wreck to cave diving in this way.... My buddy Rick has already built one Gavin clone and it is too big for steady use off the boat, one gets tired of fucking with the heavy bitch, if we put as many of those on the boat as the Apollos we would sink the boat.... We need a strong, small, light weight, good for depth, at a reasonable price scooter.... >And JT, Rodney or Trey should be interested in giving you a Scooter for >your deep dive but I'm sure they would want payment in full prior to the >great event. I would to if the product I was selling had never been that deep...... That's business get real.... At 10:29 AM 8/21/01 -0400, Bryon Bertrim wrote: >The point here is not Gavin design Vs Dacor but to truly understand when one >unit is better suited for the type of diving to done. I purchased the SS >unit to dive deep wrecks in big current. The Gavin design is extremely well >suited for this purpose. It absolutely puts the diver in the most steam >lined position possible. A wreck being like a cave requires you to maneuver >in very tight areas. This design allows the diver to ride with in an inch >of the bottom and still pick up bottles or tanks etc..Maintaining this >position is just as important in 30 Ft as 500. > >As for the single handle its a dream to use once you get used to riding a >true tow behind. Even most Gavin owners drive with one hand in the 12 >O'clock position the motorcycle style handle is beefier and finishes the >concept of controlling the unit in the 12 o'clock position. Slight >movements with your arm can make a large changes in direction. These types >of Scooters are used in the Ocean and wreck diving everyday. I believe if >you truly got a chance to try one for 3-4 dives you would see the light. The >shortest unit is only slightly larger than the Apollo. But the tow behind >aspect of both breaking the water ahead of you while keeping the diver >horizontal is inherent in this design. And for always having the unit >available. What's better having your scooter fall down between your legs >when you stop running or having it sit perfectly balanced just ahead of you >ready for you to reach over and crank on the gas. A stock Mako will smoke an >Apollo and rewinding the Mako adds about 25% more smoke. > >You are correct about the Apollo price, the list of the Apollo is 2K. I like >everybody purchased mine used for about 1K and later sold it for the same. I >liked the Dacor but its a poor mans scooter . Sort of like a Escort sport >vs. a 'Vette. There is a big difference but you only appreciate it once you >have used it for a while. And we tend to believe in what we have until you >try something better. Jim i have a email from you 2.5 yrs ago when you said >that Neo dry suits were the best now you dive with a DUI 450. There is a >little story i read to my kids called Green Eggs & Ham........Many of us >resisted DIR and WKPP experiences venomously believing it only applied to >Cave diving in Florida but once we try each aspect we realize its broad >application and completness. And in this case the Gavin design is on the top >of the list. I have never had a new piece of gear stand out this much since >Helium. > >And JT, Rodney or Trey should be interested in giving you a Scooter for >your deep dive but I'm sure they would want payment in full prior to the >great event. > >Good Luck >BB > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> >To: "Bryon Bertrim" <bryon@be*.co*>; "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*> >Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:01 PM >Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor > > > > I guess you don't know as much as you say, its funny how on this list you > > can post one thing and those that lurk come out, the guy who built the one > > I used knew whose I used and why it was so dam slow. I let Tom (a > > friend)use the SS and I dusted his ass with my Apollo at 220ft on the >Doria > > and had to keep stopping so he could keep up... They now tell me that they > > are correcting the motors in the SS, but they still will have a problem > > with that type of trigger motorcycle handle on the SS. The one I used is > > only good for depth nothing more, he is willing to come dive with us and > > let us test the new ones, so I may change my mind, but the one I saw/used > > was a piece of shit, except for the depth rating and should be replaced at > > no cost.... Would I use it on one of my deep dives, sure the Apollo/Dacors > > won't cut it past 250ft, the SS has been to a max depth of 360ft, I have > > made 6 dives PAST that depth and 3 more planned for Oct. one will be past > > 500ft, you think that scooter is tough let me use one on that dive, I'll > > test it and let you know..... > > > > BTW if you paid 2K for an Apollo someone saw you coming..... > > > > > > > > At 11:12 AM 8/20/01 -0400, Bryon Bertrim wrote: > > >JT and boys > > >I believe your your opinion is way off base, the Silent Submersion units >are > > >only comparable to a Gavin and Zepp performance wise, like the Gavin they > > >both utilize a beefed up Oceanic Mako motor running at 24 volts my guess > > >around 1300 RPM they are depth rated to 500 ft/ beyond and durable as >hell. > > >The Dacor/Apollo is a light duty inexpensive toy by comparison, yes you >may > > >mod the triggers and beef up the outer shell to handle a bit more depth >but > > >that is it. The Dacor runs a single 12 volt 24 Amp hr battery and run at >500 > > >RPM the smallest SS unit uses 2 x18 amp hrs batteries and the mid range >uses > > >2 x26 Amp/hr. So you can say that the SS unit is heaver and more >expensive > > >but the towing power of an SS is over 3 X more than any Dacor. You have >to > > >worry about the Dacors just making it to the dive site the case is so >thin. > > >DIR means just that buy the right equipment for the job and the SS unit >is > > >an expedition class scooter. I use the SS's addition power maneuvering in > > >moderate to heavy current much like cave flow its bull nose breaks the >water > > >around the diver and equipment allowing you to handle more flow with less > > >stress. In a more recent comparison an SS unit to Dacor i had to de-pitch > > >the SS's prop to 4 out of 9 to allow the Dacor to barely keep up in a no > > >current shootout and i had more gear. Having owned both there is no > > >comparison and recommend that if you are into any level of technical >diving > > >and can afford it buy a real scooter.. A new Apollo will run you 2K where > > >for 1.5K more you get 3 X the scooter. All this said, I do agree almost >any > > >scooter is better than no scooter at all. > > > > > >BB > > > > > >FYI Dacor and the Apollo av1 are on in the same. Dacor OEMs them from > > >Apollo. > > >http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html > > >www.silent-submersion.com > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*> > > >To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> > > >Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:39 PM > > >Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of the List > > > > > > > > > > OK, good to know. But let me ask, easier? In what way? Cheaper and > > > > faster are more obvious. > > > > Wendell > > > > > > > > Capt JT wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have used the Silent Submersion, if you only dive past 225ft all >the > > >time > > > > > then that is what its good for. It has little use or comparison to >the > > > > > Apollo/Dacor scooter, they are faster, easier, and cheaper..... >better > > >in > > > > > my book.... > > > > > > > > > > At 12:27 AM 8/19/01 +0200, wendell grogan wrote: > > > > > >If anyone is interested, Rodney Nairne's scooters have > > > > > >been a good 50 meters deeper without any problems. He > > > > > >sells them as Silent Submersion. > > > > > >Wendell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> schrieb: > Huh, > > > > > >actually, 55m is essentially the same depth > > > > > > > rating as a standard Mako: > > > > > > > 180 feet MOD. I did take one down to that depth the > > > > > > > other day, but > > > > > > > considering how often they leak on just mild dives, > > > > > > > despite major babying of > > > > > > > the o-rings, I wouldn't trust one for anything > > > > > > > serious. Likely you will end > > > > > > > up swimming it back, full of water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > To: Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: > > > > > > > Purpose of the List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mako 2 and it's factory rated for 55m anybody done > > > > > > > deeper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: "Cam Banks"<cam@ca*.co*> > > > > > > > > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver > > > > > > > > (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Fri Aug 17 09:07:58 PDT 2001 > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose > > > > > > > of the List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What new Mako, please? Thanks. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Cam > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> > > > > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > >>> To: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@ho*.co*>, > > > > > > > "Techdiver (E-mail)" > > > > > > > >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > >>> Subject: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of > > > > > > > the List > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> MOD for the new Mako. > > > > > > > >>> The manual states 55m. thanks > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > >>> From: "David B. Widen"<dwiden@ho*.co*> > > > > > > > >>> To: "Techdiver (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > >>> Date: Thu Aug 16 18:55:34 PDT 2001 > > > > > > > >>> Subject: Purpose of the List > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>>> Let go back to tech diving issue and thoughts, > > > > > > > drop the T & A stuff. This > > > > > > > >>>> is > > > > > > > >>>> not January with cold and blow out. It is > > > > > > > August with great diving > > > > > > > >>>> opportunities. > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> David > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > > > > > > >>> GO.com Mail > > > > > > > >>> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at > > > > > > > http://mail.go.com > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> -- > > > > > > > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > GO.com Mail > > > > > > > > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at > > > > > > > http://mail.go.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________________ > > > > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > >Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de > > > > > >-- > > > > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get >in > > >the > > > > > water" > > > > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >the > > water" > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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