You have to understand how we use our units. Most of us clip onto a ring on
the prop shroud to the crotch Dring and step off the boat attached to the
scooter. The moment you hit the water you turn on the scooter and it takes
you down even if you have some air in your wings or drysuit. You head
directly down the anchor line and to the wreck. Around here we usually dive
with the boat attached to the wreck with varying amounts of current and
don't have the time to screw around on the surface.

While the tow harness seen on cave expeditionary scooters are great for the
long haul they are a pain for this use. With the scooter clipped off at the
shroud you have instant access to the unit without having to position it
first. With a D/A it can actually pull you sideways from the waist if you
want. In this case the forward mounted handles of the Dacor are an asset.
But if you are doing a long cruise, like in a cave, the tow line is superior
for comfort, but this is usually not the case with wreckers. We use the
scooter in short bursts to hop around to different parts of the wreck.

The single battery of A/D makes it lightweight enough to be an attached part
of your gear. It's no problem to change batteries between dives, in fact
that is preferable to carrying 2 or more batteries at once, having to hump
these batteries on and off the dive boat. As far as pulling power I have no
problem hauling all my stuff plus another tech diver behind me with an A/D,
and have done it several times.

Your scooter seems to be a clone of the Gavin types, which I guess is a
sincere form of flattery. But if you were really interested in the wrecker
crowd your product would not just be a copy of a Gavin but more like an
improved Dacor. The ideal wreck scooter would use the D/A drive train and
battery but have a cylindrical body to better handle depths. I would like
the handle to be moveable from the front to the back, but a front control
would be required for the shroud tow ring arrangement.

While the D/A does not have the depth ability of Gavins or SS's I can assure
you it's no toy. It's a tough little scooter which can really take a beating
and is ideal for wrecking.

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: "Bryon Bertrim" <bryon@be*.co*>
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:12:17 -0400
> To: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*>, "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
> Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Subject: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> 
> JT and boys
> I believe your your opinion is way off base, the Silent Submersion units are
> only comparable to a Gavin and Zepp performance wise, like the Gavin they
> both utilize a beefed up Oceanic Mako motor running at 24 volts my guess
> around 1300 RPM they are depth rated to 500 ft/ beyond and durable as hell.
> The Dacor/Apollo is a light duty inexpensive toy by comparison, yes you may
> mod the triggers and beef up the outer shell to handle a bit more depth but
> that is it. The Dacor runs a single 12 volt 24 Amp hr battery and run at 500
> RPM the smallest SS unit uses 2 x18 amp hrs batteries and the mid range uses
> 2 x26 Amp/hr. So you can say that the SS unit is heaver and more expensive
> but the towing power of an SS is over 3 X more than any Dacor. You have to
> worry about the Dacors just making it to the dive site the case is so thin.
> DIR means just that buy the right equipment for the job and the SS unit is
> an expedition class scooter. I use the SS's addition power maneuvering in
> moderate to heavy current much like cave flow its bull nose breaks the water
> around the diver and equipment allowing you to handle more flow with less
> stress. In a more recent comparison an SS unit to Dacor i had to de-pitch
> the SS's prop to 4 out of 9 to allow the Dacor to barely keep up in a no
> current shootout and i had more gear. Having owned both there is no
> comparison and recommend that if you are into any level of technical diving
> and can afford it buy a real scooter.. A new Apollo will run you 2K where
> for 1.5K more you get 3 X the scooter. All this said, I do agree almost any
> scooter is better than no scooter at all.
> 
> BB
> 
> FYI Dacor and the Apollo av1 are on in the same. Dacor OEMs them from
> Apollo.
> http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html
> www.silent-submersion.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*>
> To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
> Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of the List
> 
> 
>> OK, good to know.  But let me ask, easier?  In what way?  Cheaper and
>> faster are more obvious.
>> Wendell
>> 
>> Capt JT wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have used the Silent Submersion, if you only dive past 225ft all the
> time
>>> then that is what its good for. It has little use or comparison to the
>>> Apollo/Dacor scooter, they are faster, easier, and cheaper..... better
> in
>>> my book....
>>> 
>>> At 12:27 AM 8/19/01 +0200, wendell grogan wrote:
>>>> If anyone is interested, Rodney Nairne's scooters have
>>>> been a good 50 meters deeper without any problems.  He
>>>> sells them as Silent Submersion.
>>>> Wendell
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --- Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> schrieb: > Huh,
>>>> actually, 55m is essentially the same depth
>>>>> rating as a standard Mako:
>>>>> 180 feet MOD.  I did take one down to that depth the
>>>>> other day, but
>>>>> considering how often they leak on just mild dives,
>>>>> despite major babying of
>>>>> the o-rings, I wouldn't trust one for anything
>>>>> serious.  Likely you will end
>>>>> up swimming it back, full of water.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cam
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>> To: Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re:
>>>>> Purpose of the List
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mako 2 and it's factory rated for 55m anybody done
>>>>> deeper?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: "Cam Banks"<cam@ca*.co*>
>>>>>> To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver
>>>>>> (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>> Date: Fri Aug 17 09:07:58 PDT 2001
>>>>>> Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose
>>>>> of the List
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What new Mako, please?  Thanks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cam
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>>>> To: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@ho*.co*>,
>>>>> "Techdiver (E-mail)"
>>>>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of
>>>>> the List
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> MOD for the new Mako.
>>>>>>>> The manual states 55m. thanks
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: "David B. Widen"<dwiden@ho*.co*>
>>>>>>>> To: "Techdiver (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu Aug 16 18:55:34 PDT 2001
>>>>>>>> Subject: Purpose of the List
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Let go back to tech diving issue and thoughts,
>>>>> drop the T & A stuff. This
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> not January with cold and blow out. It is
>>>>> August with great diving
>>>>>>>>> opportunities.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> GO.com Mail
>>>>>>>> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at
>>>>> http://mail.go.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>>>> GO.com Mail
>>>>>> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at
>>>>> http://mail.go.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
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>>>> --
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>>> 
>>> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
> the
>>> water"
>>> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>>> Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>> --
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> 
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