Lets get our FACTS Straight here first I've NEVER ONCE argued with them about
DIR. I'm not qualified enough to try to pull it off so I DON'T.
What i HAVE done many times is when they start the lies and crap I CROSS POST
from Trey mostly in here or once in a while from DIR-QUEST Info that
specifically counters the lies. I point out it IS a cross post and it's for
that purpose alone.

Then when I'm personally attacked it's me and them NOT DIR and THEM so the bull
shit gets side tracked and those better qualified are free to post with out
much hassles as I'm then the target NOT DIR.

Me I've been in this game since 1985 and have a VERY thick skin so it does not
at all bother me when they go for personal attacks cracks threats etc.

I personally would LOVE it if lot's more DIR advocates WOULD post there BUT
since they DON'T I and a few others do what we can where we can.

Their minds were closed LONG before I started posting there. Ask Dan he's been
in there as a DIR advocate LONG before I started. Tell me where are YOUR posts
over there?

You or some others get in there I'll be MORE than glad to back out I've got
MUCH better things to do that hassle with twits. BUT Till you and others DO I'm
there.


Jim Holcomb wrote:

> So Jack - which do you think is better: Popeye and Gray being allowed to run
> rampant talking their stuff OR have someone argue with them about DIR who,
> in fact, isn't DIR nor dive in a technical environment. My point, Jack, is
> that there are plenty of DIR advocates out there who can articulate the
> message AND have the experience to back it up.  But if the rec. population
> has already closed their minds and shut their ears to new ideas because of
> BULLSHIT - nothing is accomplished.  Do you understand what I'm trying to
> say here, Jack?
>
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Farmer" <jack@ma*.th*.co*>
> To: "Jim Holcomb" <jimholcomb@x-*.co*>; "Andrew Georgitsis"
> <andrewg@fi*.co*>; "anthony rue" <true@gu*.co*>; "Chris Werner"
> <clw5232@ga*.ac*.fs*.ed*>; "Dan Volker" <dan@sf*.co*>; "Jarrod
> Jablonski" <JJ@gu*.co*>; "John Walker" <techdive@ea*.ne*>; "MHK"
> <mhkane@pr*.ne*>; "pina" <pina3@be*.ne*>; "tleemay"
> <tleemay@ne*.ne*>; "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>
> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Word of advice, Jack
>
> > OK Jim #1 I'm in NO WAY trying to be a cheer leader for anyone.
> >
> > If that's the impression you got it's WRONG.
> >
> > #2. I'm NOT nor ever WAS trying to sell anything to anyone and stated MANY
> > times I spoke ONLY for myself and my own experiences and opinions. When
> people
> > there twist that to mean what they want it to then argue about what THEY
> think
> > I MEANT rather that what i plainly SAID I could care less what THEIR
> opinion
> > is.
> >
> > #3. It's been my experience from lurking on rec.scuba for several years
> BEFORE
> > I ever posted anything that there are a few figure heads in there who make
> up
> > that cliché and THEY run rec.scuba the rest follow along. Mike Gray,
> PopEye to
> > name 2 of the more obvious ones. Then there is a guy names ZACK whom I
> forced
> > over several days to admit publicly there he's lied about a statement he's
> made
> > about something Trey was supposed to have done that i called him a liar
> on.
> >
> > These are the guy's I'm out to deal with NOT CONVINCE OR CONVERT just show
> up
> > for what they are.
> >
> > Frankly George can speak for himself and does not need me OR you to speak
> for
> > him I don't and never tried to. if he wants me to shut up HE'll be the one
> to
> > tell me and until he does I'll assume he could care less and do what i
> feel
> > like like the rest of us do.
> >
> > Dive Safe.
> >
> > L8R
> >
> > Jim Holcomb wrote:
> >
> > > I know we have already discussed this once, but let's try again.  The
> REASON
> > > why some people seem to carry more influence on rec.scuba than they
> should
> > > is because there are some (with no personal technical experience) that
> > > insist on trying to be a cheerleader for George and his team.  When your
> > > general diving population reads some of these folks posts and later
> learn
> > > that they have no personal experience in the area they are trying to
> speak
> > > it adds credibility to those who have some technical experience but
> insist
> > > on doing it wrong.  The folks on rec.scuba are rec divers.  They will
> listen
> > > to the person who seems to have the most experience on a particular
> > > subject - right or wrong. On the flip side - when folks lacking
> experience
> > > in a particular arena attempt selling of a philosophy it results in the
> rest
> > > of us being called DIR fanatics, mindless drones, George wannabes, WKPP
> > > wannabes and the list goes on.
> > > With George and his team's list of accomplishments, they are quite
> capable
> > > of spreading the word and educating the recreational diving population,
> in
> > > general, and the technical diving population, specifically.
> > > So as a favor to me and many other inexperienced cave and wreck divers
> who
> > > have adopted the DIR philosophy toward our
> diving..........Please......Shut
> > > up!
> > >
> > > Jim
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jack Farmer" <jack@ma*.th*.co*>
> > > To: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>; "Sally Hooper" <sallyhpr@ea*.ne*>
> > > Cc: "Marie" <scubagirl@di*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:18 AM
> > > Subject: Re: DCS incident
> > >
> > > > Ya know Trey over in rec.scuba HE would be considered to be a supreme
> > > authority
> > > > on Tech diving.
> > > >
> > > > Man it just keeps going on and on and on and on etc.......
> > > >
> > > > I finally REALLY understand why you seem at times short tempered.
> > > >
> > > > hahaha
> > > >
> > > > Safe Diving.
> > > >
> > > > L8R
> > > >
> > > > Trey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Marie, you are a complete moron. I run the most successful dive
> project
> > > in
> > > > > diving and have LONG AGO sought out and used the real resources in
> this
> > > game
> > > > > that have allowed us to do what we do so successfully, and have
> > > accumulated
> > > > > a track record that you will never understand, as well as developed
> > > > > decompression techniques that are now recognized as the correct way
> to
> > > do
> > > > > this, and have nothing to do with the slop out of DAN , PADI or
> Navy.
> > > Why
> > > > > don't you find out who and what we are before you get on here like
> an
> > > idiot
> > > > > and start recommending that we all go re read our PADI tables.
> Should we
> > > > > stay three squares from a black box, Marie, or is the good "doc"
> still
> > > > > trying to figure that one out?
> > > > >
> > > > > Notice that the original question addressed me, not you, and the
> correct
> > > > > answer was given. This is not rec scuba, by the way. If you think
> the
> > > word
> > > > > "bullshit" is "profanity", then maybe you should stop bullshitting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll start sending everyone to you , PADI and DAN when they ask me a
> > > deco
> > > > > question. Your vast experience reading "Alert Diver" will be a big
> help
> > > to
> > > > > them all, I am sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Marie [mailto:scubagirl@di*.co*]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:03 PM
> > > > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; trey@ne*.co*
> > > > > Subject: Re: DCS incident
> > > > >
> > > > > Well Trey,
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are some tips for you:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1)  Look before you leap.
> > > > > 2)  That looks like a pretty nasty case of hoof in mouth.
> > > > > 3)  It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and
> remove
> > > all
> > > > > doubt.
> > > > >
> > > > > All I was trying to do was help you guys out, but you obviously
> don't
> > > care
> > > > > to know the truth.  If you were interested in expanding your
> knowledge,
> > > you
> > > > > would have looked into what I said before you open your mouth and
> spewed
> > > > > profanity (obviously the only way you know how to communicate).  Try
> > > > > checking with DAN or PADI or try reading any one of the over 100
> > > studies,
> > > > > articles, and papers he has had published. Or contact the Undersea
> > > Medical
> > > > > Society about the many presentations he has given or participated
> in, or
> > > > > contact the Undersea Hyperbaric Medical Society and find out why Dr.
> > > Powell
> > > > > is a high respected member.  Or you could contact NEDU (Navy
> > > Experimental
> > > > > Dive Unit).
> > > > >
> > > > > For any of the rest of you who may be interested in expanding your
> > > knowledge
> > > > > of DCS with more than just Trey's hot air, feel free to follow up on
> any
> > > of
> > > > > the resources I have mentioned.
> > > > >
> > > > > Marie
> > > > >
> > > > > trey@ne*.co* wrote:
> > > > > > Bullshit. My favorite line here is "during which time he directed
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > human-subject tests of the DSAT/PADI Recreational Dive Planner."
> > > > > > This give
> > > > > > new meaning to the term "face the wheel".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact is that the guys who know the most about this are the
> > > > > > ones who work
> > > > > > with sources who actually are involved in serious diving . If
> > > > > > this guy had
> > > > > > any contribution to make to this game, we'd know about it. What
> > > > > > he has is
> > > > > > the party line that does not work and is why we see these
> > > > > > accidents. Wake up
> > > > > > and smell reality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Navy comment is also just too funny.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >
> >
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

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