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Susan, We've never conversed before, but I like what you have to say. I think alot of what you're saying is correct, down to (and especially) your last comment:) I don't really know what the relationship between EE, Halcyon, and GUE is, nor do I care. I have not yet taken a GUE course (but hope to rectify that by the end of the year), but I have been impressed by the attitude. Its not a good way to make money- here's the information, here's what we demand of you to get our training, if you want to take a course, this is how much it costs whether you pass, fail, or quit.... I have had very good instruction with people from a number of agencies. I happen to be lucky enough to be near a shop run by one of the pioneers of tech diving who is still teaching, and still learning. What I have learned from diving with her and her crew is attitude. Do it right, or stay out of the water. This philosophy starts with basic open water training and never stops. You don't show up and ask to train to be an instructor with her, she picks you! In terms of cost, to get basic deco, advanced nitrox, and normoxic trimix from most agencies, there are three courses you have to take. From GUE, you get all three in one package. In fact, if you look carefully at the course work, GUE tech 1 includes the above, plus what PADI and NAUI include in their Rescue diver and master diver courses (which are required to take any tech diving course). Cost wise alone, its a no brainer. Now, if you already have these basic courses, then going to GUE is going to cost you more. Your comments on the cave course are true. Its what I was getting at in terms of the published course standards for the different agencies. There's not a whole lot of difference between any of them. This, I think, is because there is a certain body of truth, the devil is in the details as they say. An illustration- one of the things I have done is minor in comparative religion in college. In Christianity, there is little fundamental difference between the various sects- in terms of what they state as their fundamental beliefs. However, when you look at the details of how they impliment those beliefs, the differences wax larger and larger to the point that multiple bloody wars have been fought over them. Talk about probably living to regret what you say!:( Wendell 7/25/01 8:34:32 PM, LouisianaLegal@ao*.co* wrote: > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2001 2:49:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > docgrog@ya*.de* writes: > > > > > However, if the question is "with whom should I > train?", the answer is more complicated, as you point > out. > > > > > This is true. > > I won't bash GUE on this list because it definitely doesn't deserve it and > > > I'm not suicidal; and I love my mother :) > > However, recently someone posted their notes/outline from a GUE Cave 1 > > course > > and then a rather specific diary of the what he did each hour of the > course. > > Not being super familiar with the GUE course I looked at the his site and > damn, if it wasn't exactly the Cavern, Intro to Cave course I took. > > Nothing > new. > > > I am told BUT DON"T KNOW FOR A FACT that the course fee for GUE Cave 1 is > > substantially higher than the course fee of a Cavern, Intro to Cave. > Doesn't > > make it inherently bad but it makes me wonder why. I do know someone who > took a GUE mix course recently and the fee was the standard $600.00 most > > instructors are charging. > > It may depend on the instructor. There's that phrase again. > > There is no question GUE has outstanding gear rigging and precise > > procedures. > And GUE is attempting to raise the bar on training standards and are to be > > > commended. > > My reserve with GUE has to do with its independence and its relationships. > > > > I question the relationship between GUE and EE, which I understand is no > > longer into manufacturing since the manifold recall. It may be the tie > between a training agency and a manufacturer can be completely above board > > > with no unfortunate ties between them, but my reserve on this issue goes > back > > to Jon Cronin, PADI and US Divers. I question the relationship between > > Tom > Mount, IANTD and the rebreathers he claims not to promote. Or between > > Bret > and Uwatec when he was with them and TDI. It's a small diving world and > > overlap occurs all the time. > > I've read on this list that founders of GUE developed their own gear > > because > > they couldn't find what they wanted on the market. Now we have EE > recalling > > gear. > > My problem is putting ANY training agency up on a pedestal or any > manufacturer, for that matter. > > > When EE had the manifold recall, no matter how they handled it (I didn't > see > free shipping in any of the posts to return the manifolds), it WAS a > recall > > nonetheless. It was unfortunate but it also made some people realize EE > was > just a manufacturer, like any other manufacturer, that has to rely on > suppliers. And just because a product is stamped EE doesn't mean its > > perfect. > > MY concern is that I listen to too many people who say I do this or that, > or > I bought this or that, because one person or agency advocates it without > > ever > stopping to really question why or look at the gear or remember ALL gear > can > and does fail. It may be the best piece of gear or the best procedure but > > if > they are only following mindlessly, what have you got? > > I do think you and I are on the same page. And it looks like you've > become > > quite sold on GUE after proper due diligence and inquiry. It may be the > best > out there right now. And if I was taking a course today I'd certainly > consider them. > > > I just think everyone, including myself, needs to keep a critical eye and > a > critical judgment. > > I may live to regret this post. > > > Susan -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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