While I agree on the unpredictability of oxtox, if the victim of a seizure
has conducted his dive well within the conventional limits set by the
"powers that be", then it behooves us to look for other factors in the
equation.  If there are none to be found, then the "limits" need to be
reevaluated.  Historically, these limits have been arrived at when the
number of "incidents" per given quantity of dives is deemed unacceptable.

There are many other factors that could have caused a seizure, such as
undiagnosed epilepsy or diabetes.  Also, an inexperienced diver struggling
to maintain buoyancy on deco at 1.6 is no longer at rest and therefore at
greater risk. (Not to imply that was so in this instance.)

Given the unpredictability of oxtox, I would be far more concerned about a
possible undiagnosed condition causing future problems than I would be about
him "toxing" again.

While as you say, your number may pop up, the odds are skewed against it if
all was done according to Hoyle and therefore you really need to scrutinize
what went on before calling it a "tox".  That said, if it stands up to
reasonable scrutiny and is called a tox, we need to look at modifying the
procedures once again.

I think we are all pretty much of the same mind on all of this, just
expressing it differently.

Joe


----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Reichardt <fishfinder1@ho*.co*>
To: <joe@po*.co*>; <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>;
<captjt@mi*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>;
<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: something just isn't adding up


>     Yes, Joe I 100% agree- that is why I gave my report yesterday on my
own
> CNS ox tox experiance.My point wasn't that my po2 was low(under1.4) but
that
> it shouldn't be suprising when it happens occasionally at 1.6,
particularly
> on 100% o2. Dramatic swings of po2 are stresses to the metabolism and a
> probable contributor to ox toxicity, just as a switch from helium-rich gas
> to air at 180-200fsw will often lead to almost immediate blackout-care to
> try this for 5 breaths? Tell your buddy first!
>     JT gave all the critical information- hell, I asked for some myself,
but
> the post I responded to seemed to dismiss the reality of the unpredictable
> nature of CNS and look for reasons where none probably exist. We all
should
> have been taught that there is no blame to be placed for a dcs hit because
> it is a statistical reality of diving, but most tech divers seem to deny
> that same reality as applies to o2 hits. Do you think that the diver who
> convulsed will have as many people who will want to partner up with him as
a
> result of this? Should he? Yes. Will he? Probably not. Even with his
> identity protected.And that shouldn't be.
> -Fishman
>
>
> >From: "Joe Citelli" <joe@po*.co*>
> >Reply-To: "Joe Citelli" <joe@po*.co*>
> >To: "Eric Reichardt" <fishfinder1@ho*.co*>,
<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
> >   <captjt@mi*.co*>, <techdiver@aquanaut.com>,
> ><vbtech@ci*.co*>,   <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
> >Subject: Re: something just isn't adding up
> >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:47:36 -0300
> >
> >If you don't question and discuss these things you can't learn from them.
> >I
> >don't think anyone was trying to affix "blame" as much as they were
looking
> >for some avoidable act of omission or commission.  There may in fact be
> >none
> >and his might have just been the "luck of the draw" so to speak, but you
> >still have to ask and inquire.
> >
> >joe
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Eric Reichardt <fishfinder1@ho*.co*>
> >To: <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <captjt@mi*.co*>;
> ><techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>;
<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 10:20 PM
> >Subject: Re: something just isn't adding up
> >
> >
> > >      Dudes, CNS HITS ARE JUST LIKE DCS HITS-THEY ARE A REALITY OF TECH
> > > DIVING.THEY CAN HIT ANYONE, ANYTIME. Ask the navy experimental dive
> >unit.
> > > You reduce the risks as much as you can and plan contingencies and
then
> >you
> > > roll the dice. There may be *alot* of numbers on them dice, but your
> >number
> > > may still pop up. If you cannot accept that reality, TECH DIVING IS
NOT
> >FOR
> > > YOU! Quit trying to explain away that reality by trying to find out
why
> >that
> > > diver was at fault for what happened-just LEARN from it. Oops, now I
> >sound
> > > like an ass@^%&.I'm not critisizing anyone or their methods, I am just
> > > reminding everyone who needs it that this is by nature an EXTREME
sport.
> > >     -Fishman
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*
> > > >To: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com,
> > > >vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net
> > > >Subject: Re: The Seizure
> > > >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:22:35 US/Eastern
> > > >
> > > > >   I have received a lot of the same questions so I will answer
them
> >in
> >a
> > > > > single post.....
> > > >
> > > >I have a few questions. How long was this person listed for the trip?
> >Were
> > > >they
> > > >recently added in a rush to fill spots that often comes up with large
> >boats
> > > >and
> > > >few paying diver? What is the experience level of this diver. Actual
> >real
> > > >world
> > > >dives and not watching techies. Something just isn't adding
> > > >up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >============================================================
> > > >To contact the list administrator, email
> > > >Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > > >listserv@mi*.ne*
> > > >and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > > >unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > To contact the list administrator, email
> > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > > listserv@mi*.ne*
> > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> > >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> ============================================================
> To contact the list administrator, email
> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
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> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
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