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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C10334.45803F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Putting a smiley on this takes the edge of irony... Perhaps Mr. Cobb will comment your post, but I for one can't uderstand how you misinterpret this as a serious statement. Or do you? After reading the post a few times, I believe it states planning when you should leave your buddy is a huge leap in the wrong direction, and nobody should ever die. Period! Personally I'd like to think that my buddies would hang around to help when Murphy invites to a feast. If an incident occurs, one should solve the problem. Leaving your buddy to die is to give up and save your own ass, it's not solving any problem... Regards Thor -----Original Message----- From: N.S. (Norm) Nopper [mailto:nsnopper@pa*.ca*] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 2:31 PM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: "After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." "After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." (Some recent wisdom offered here on techdiver) Hello Everyone: I am a long time lurker on this listserver group, and until today I enjoyed the simple pleasure of sitting back and LISTENING to what people had to say here. I agree that that is a lot of garbage and flaming on this forum, but you simply have to be selective in what you read, and filter out the noise. During the 3 or more years that I have been reading the posts to this group, I have come to respect the viewpoints and advice of Trey and his group at WKPP. Like many on this list, I was very uncomfortable with the way in which Trey expressed himself. I even sent him a private email with a few words of advice on how to make his message more positive. In response, he sent me a friendly email of thanks. HOWEVER, today I am forced to conclude that Trey is absolutely justified in his communication approach. I became convinced of this when I read this little "gem of wisdom" in a recent email by Jim Cobb: "Personally I think it would be better to teach something more along the lines of its best for nobody to die in the first place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." (The bold lettering is my emphasis.) ARE YOU KIDDING? Mr. Cobb, please tell us that you are being facetious, and don't really believe this. Put a smiley on it. Give us a sign that you're not serious. If this is truly the philosophy that some "Diver Training Organizations" (and I use the term loosely) are espousing, then they should be shut down immediately. I took up diving back in 1990 for pleasure and relaxation. I have all of my own equipment, and I have the best (Halcyon back plate and wing, Apeks Tek 50). In all my diving, I have broken below 100 feet exactly twice, because I have no need or desire to go deeper. I enjoy wreck diving in the Great Lakes. I have no desire to enter 9 km into caves, or go to 1100 feet in depth, or push the envelope in any other way. I leave that to those who have the time and motivation to train, train, train, and re-train to learn and develop the techniques to Do It Right. I can see that we have unqualified people on this list who are trying to push that envelope. And worse, they are recruiting others - under the facade of offering advanced training - to push that envelope too. If I push the envelope and die, it's suicide. If I encourage you to push the envelope and you die, it's murder (if not in the legal sense, then certainly morally). Sincerely, N.S. (Norm) Nopper PS: For the love of God, Mr. Cobb, please tell us you didn't mean this. "After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C10334.45803F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001>Putting a smiley on this takes the edge of=20 irony...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001>Perhaps Mr. Cobb will comment your post, but = I for one=20 can't uderstand how you misinterpret this as a serious statement. Or do = you?=20 After reading the post a few times, I believe it states planning when = you should=20 leave your buddy is a huge leap in the wrong direction, and nobody = should ever=20 die. Period! Personally I'd like to think that my buddies would hang = around to=20 help when Murphy invites to a feast. If an incident occurs, one should = solve the=20 problem. Leaving your buddy to die is to give up and save your own ass, = it's not=20 solving any problem...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001>Regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001>Thor</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D020280018-02072001></SPAN><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20 face=3DArial> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D020280018-02072001> </SPAN>-----Original = Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20 N.S. (Norm) Nopper [mailto:nsnopper@pa*.ca*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, = July=20 02, 2001 2:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B> techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> = "After=20 all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and=20 then."<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT><B>"After all this is = technical=20 diving and people are supposed to die now and then."</B> <BR>(Some = recent=20 wisdom offered here on techdiver)=20 <P>Hello Everyone:=20 <P>I am a long time lurker on this listserver group, and until today I = enjoyed=20 the simple pleasure of sitting back and LISTENING to what people had = to say=20 here. I agree that that is a lot of garbage and flaming on this forum, = but you=20 simply have to be selective in what you read, and filter out the = noise.=20 <P>During the 3 or more years that I have been reading the posts to = this=20 group, I have come to respect the viewpoints and advice of Trey and = his group=20 at WKPP. Like many on this list, I was very uncomfortable with the way = in=20 which Trey expressed himself. I even sent him a private email with a = few words=20 of advice on how to make his message more positive. In response, he = sent me a=20 friendly email of thanks.=20 <P>HOWEVER, today I am forced to conclude that Trey is absolutely = justified in=20 his communication approach. I became convinced of this when I read = this little=20 "gem of wisdom" in a recent email by Jim Cobb:=20 <P>"Personally I think it would be better to teach something more = along the=20 lines of its best for nobody to die in the first place, but I know = that's=20 totally unrealistic of me. <B>After all this is technical diving and = people=20 are supposed to die now and then.</B>" <BR>(The bold lettering is my=20 emphasis.)=20 <P>ARE YOU KIDDING? Mr. Cobb, please tell us that you are being = facetious, and=20 don't really believe this. Put a smiley on it. Give us a sign that = you're not=20 serious.=20 <P>If this is truly the philosophy that some "Diver Training = Organizations"=20 (and I use the term loosely) are espousing, then they should be shut = down=20 immediately.=20 <P>I took up diving back in 1990 for pleasure and relaxation. I have = all of my=20 own equipment, and I have the best (Halcyon back plate and wing, Apeks = Tek=20 50). In all my diving, I have broken below 100 feet exactly twice, = because I=20 have no need or desire to go deeper. I enjoy wreck diving in the Great = Lakes.=20 I have <I>no desire</I> to enter 9 km into caves, or go to 1100 feet = in depth,=20 or push the envelope in any other way. I leave that to those who have = the time=20 and motivation to train, train, train, and re-train to learn and = develop the=20 techniques to Do It Right.=20 <P>I can see that we have unqualified people on this list who are = trying to=20 push that envelope. And worse, they are recruiting others - under the = facade=20 of offering advanced training - to push that envelope too.=20 <P>If I push the envelope and die, it's suicide.=20 <P>If I encourage you to push the envelope and you die, it's murder = (if not in=20 the legal sense, then certainly morally).=20 <P>Sincerely, <BR>N.S. (Norm) Nopper<B></B>=20 <P>PS: For the love of God, Mr. Cobb, please tell us you didn't mean=20 this.<B></B>=20 <P><B>"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to = die now=20 and then."</B> <BR><B></B> <BR><B></B> =20 </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C10334.45803F60-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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