Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:16:32 -0400 To: <cobber@ci*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> Subject: Re: accident As you understand it it is as usual wrong IANTD does not teach abandon your buddy. In our standards it states ยท On any occasion a student requires assistance, the instructor and any dive master or dive supervisor will make every reasonable effort to assist or rescue the student. The instructor will be expected to continue an assist or rescue attempt until it is either successful or it becomes apparent that to continue will result in unreasonably endangering the rescuers life or endanger other students or members of the dive team. You can take that anyway you wish, Also Claudia did ascend quite a way with Garrett before letting him go up. It is highly likely that had she surfaced and worked with him she also would have been in a critical state of DCS . If you read the literature those who experience explosive DCS do not fare well. So it was her logical decision not to go all the way to the surface. I think decisions of this sort have to be made by an individual as there is no way to make a standard as to the risk of death or injury and individual must make. It is all due to the situation at he time. Jim as you are such a high powered diver would you omit one hour of deco from the 60 foot stop and go to the surface? a simple yes or no will suffice tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> To: <cobber@ci*.co*>; <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:57 AM Subject: Re: accident > Jim & Tom- > It appears as if I have been accidentally cc'ed into this thread. Please > omit my e-mail address from further e-mail discussion on this topic. > Many thanks, > Mike > > > >From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> > >To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Michael Barnette > ><aocfishman@ho*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, Tech Diver > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >Subject: Re: accident > >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:41:13 -0400 > > > >I am confused about the part when is the best time to abandon your buddy.. > >Tom, as I understand it you teach buddy abandonment in IANTD classes, as it > >is better for one person to die than for both. Personally I think it would > >be better to teach something more along the lines of its best for nobody to > >die in the first place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. After > >all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then.. > > > >Anyway, Did this buddy team do proper prior planning and decided that if > >one > >or the other drops into a hypoxic delusional state that the buddy then > >assumes the other is a gonner and gets the hell out of the way? Or did the > >situation call for abandonment for drysuit problems stemming from hypoxia > >induced hallucinations? What is the IANTD official abandonment plan for > >this > >situation with rebreathers or drysuits? Or in this situation with a known > >problematic rebreather and drysuit is the abandonment plan based on a > >combination of the two? > > > >I also notice that the abandonment plan continued on the surface. I don't > >understand why IWR was not practiced even though they had several hours to > >think the problem over. > > > >Please discuss the IANDT every man for himself policy and if it's just for > >underwater or really does extend to the surface. > > > > Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > > > Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:51 -0400 > > > To: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > > > Subject: accident > > > > > > Accident Report in Regard to Garrets Death > > > This is one of the rare times we have a detailed accident report to > >review: > > > Saturday June 23, 19:05, Garrett and Claudia started a dive to 300 feet > >at > > > Mukilteo, WA. The dive included a swim of 15 minutes down a gradual > >slope to > > > the planned 300-foot depth where 5 minutes were spent. The dive was > >planned > > > with software dive tables. Both knew the dive site very well. > > > Both were diving their inspiration units that had passed all pre-dive > > > checks. Onboard tanks were full (8/60 and O2), scrubber fresh (see > >below). > > > Also, they were carrying an Al80 (10/50) and an Al40 (O2) as bailout > >each, > > > equipped with inflator hoses, gauges, and second stage. > > >> From descent to ascent, including the deep stops, everything went > >smoothly > > > like usual. > > > After leaving the 100 ft stop to 60 feet (20 ft/min) Garrett started to > > > display he was having a problem. > > > The Inspiration was functioning correctly and there were no PO2 > >problems, > > > nor other CCR related problems. The after-market ADV was disengaged as > >it > > > always was on ascent. No alarms, no malfunctions were taking place. > > > Claudia: Starting at 100 feet, he was suddenly behind me, not next to me > >or > > > slightly in front. I looked back and saw him getting rid of occasional > >water > > > in the breathing hose (normal, although he usually did not do it on > >ascent, > > > rather at the stop). He seemed to be struggling slightly with > >'something'. > > > (When someone had problems of any kind, they would stop and the buddy > >would > > > stop as well. In this case, although slightly slower, Garrett did not > >stop, > > > and no other communication indicated a serious problem, yet.) > > > Claudia: Then, arrived at the 60 ft stop, the communication was strange > >to > > > non-existent. All I understood, other than that he was getting in more > >and > > > more distress, was that his dry suit was not as quickly deflated. He > >showed > > > me that with opening the wrist seal slightly and bubbles coming out. > >Because > > > of the warm neck hood, it's very hard to open the neck seal that way, > >and > > > Garrett chose not to. " > > > Garrett presented more problems with buoyancy and a look of distress, > >and > > > surprise. After we had spent some time trying to stop the ascent by > > > releasing gas and swimming down - I could not get to the dry suit > >inflator > > > to detach it (although nothing indicated a runaway inflator) and worked > >on > > > the BC inflator - Garrett stopped kicking and continued to the surface. > >He > > > was just floating up, looking down to me. That look said that he knew > >what > > > was going to happen, and I did too." > > > (The longest deco in my life (60 minutes according to tables), on top a > > > stomach barotrauma that made breathing very hard.) > > > Comment: This is what we actually talked about with Leon yesterday > > > afternoon: Gary never really liked his deflator that does not have a > >rest > > > when fully opened, and together with the undergarment, it seemed > >difficult > > > to release the Argon in a timely manner. However, I have never seen him > > > having problems before. > > > > > > According to a person at the surface that came to help, Garrett went to > >the > > > boat ramp and climbed out of the water. He then collapsed on the boat > >ramp, > > > and the guy pulled him from the ramp up. > > > > > > Garrett said something about his dry suit to this person. He had him > >call > > > 911, told him about his buddy doing deco and to take care of her, and > >had > > > him help set up everything to breathe O2 until the ambulance would > >arrive. > > > He breathed oxygen until his onboard O2 was empty, and his stage / > >bailout > > > O2 to 1700 psi by the time the ambulance arrived to pick him up. > > > (Throughout the dive an ordeal. There was no alarm or even 'sanity > >break' at > > > any time. The scrubber was okay. Mine was new, his had 54 minutes on > >prior > > > to the dive.) > > > (Tom's comment) I think it is important that he made a conscious > >decision > > > not to descend back to his stop in the water and Garrett was fully aware > >of > > > the problems with an explosive decompression, so it would lead one to > >think > > > other factors many be involved. He also had adequate OC gas to do a deco > > > procedure, had OC gas been needed. > > > Claudia: We had talked about situations like that before and had he been > > > able to, he would have resumed his deco after fixing whatever problem he > > > had. I did not like the idea of leaving him alone when we discussed it, > >but > > > understand that otherwise we both would have been killed, and he never > > > wanted that to happen. In a similar situation, knowing that we were > >close to > > > the boat ramp on a Saturday evening with many people around, I would > >have > > > expected for him to stay down as well. A hard decision I never wanted to > > > have to make. > > > At the hospital where he also commented about his dry suit and then fell > > > unconscious after 5 minutes, due to his condition (good ECG at first, > >but a > > > drop to 40 over 20) he was treated for a heart attack (while explosive > >DSC > > > is life threatening, it was secondary to the seriousness of the heart > >attack > > > in the judgment of the attending physicians, and it is difficult if not > > > impossible to fully address the heart condition while in a chamber) for > >5 > > > hours prior to being placed in the chamber. 20 minutes into the chamber > > > treatment Garrett arrested and died. > > > Tom: Garrett was a really good friend and his loss saddens me greatly.. > >He > > > had a tremendous amount of time on the inspiration (460 hours plus) and > >was > > > the most active instructor we have had on the west coast. And maybe the > >most > > > active inspiration instructor in the USA. We have shared many dives, > >deep > > > dives and recently he and Claudia went on a Blue Hole trip with several > > > others and myself. He was extremely competent and safety orientated. In > >fact > > > during a training program when he was doing his IT and Martin was doing > >his > > > instructors and Vicki her diver rating on the inspiration we hammered > >out > > > sequencing. On the skills that are now taught in the IANTD Inspiration > > > course. So he has contributed very much to our training programs and to > > > rebreather diving safety overall. > > > > > > Patti, IANTD and I wish for Garrett the happiest after life possible and > > > know his energy will always be with those he cared for. > > > > > >> From everything from observations to the medical reaction and diagnosis > >at > > > he hospital it would have lead one to accept that Garrett had a heart > > > attack. > > > > > > True without the complication of an explosive decompression he may have > >had > > > a higher probability of surviving. > > > > > > BUT after his body was reviewed by the ME the following was found > > > > > > Claudia: According to the examiner, no enzymes could be built within the > > > time frame of 5-6 'alive' hours that would let trace a heart attack, and > > > they were not found. The final report may be shared with me in about 6-8 > > > weeks. This morning, two friends of ours, and students of Garrett's, Ken > > > Rymal and Dave Hancock, and I were explaining the gear to the examiners > >to > > > shed some light for them on the subject. We tested the unit in front of > > > them, and everything worked properly. > > > > > > Garrett and I were to get married 5 July, and had many good plans for > > > training and service, and just going diving all over the place. After > > > talking to Leon that afternoon, we produced even more ideas while > >driving > > > from the lunch place up North to Mukilteo. Except for the harsh and > >unfair > > > end, it was one of, of not the happiest weekend we had ever spent. > > > > > > Tom: questions that remain: > > > 1. What caused Garret to make the decision not to solve the problem in > >water > > > (maybe due to physiological stress if fact he was having a physical > >problem > > > as thought by the doctors ) > > > 2. Why once on the surface he elected not to return to the stops after > > > dealing with any other problems (again suggesting there was something > >else > > > taking place) > > > 3. Why was he not put in the chamber earlier, (as stated by the > >attending > > > Doctor a heart attack but according to the ME no evidence of a heart > >attack > > > > > > So we may or may not discover the answers to these as well as what if > >any > > > role a problem with the dry suit may or may not have had on this > >accident. > > > > > > We do know it was not CCR related. And it appears that there was a > > > physiological problem taking place that influenced Garrett to allow > >himself > > > to go to the surface and to elect not to return to decompression. > > > It is sad that he was not placed in the chamber immediately as that > >would > > > have definitely increased the probability of his survival of the > > > decompression issue. But the attending doctors (s) had to make a > >decision > > > based on what they perceived to be most life threatening. > > > > > > So we are still left with many questions > > > > > > We do know Garrett was extremely competent as a diver and highly > >experienced > > > on the inspiration > > > > > > Respectfully > > > Claudia Milz and Tom Mount > > >> From Leon Scamahorn > > > I am at a loss. Garrett, Claudia, and I had just finished having lunch > >and > > > talking about the Meg. I was looking forward to working with Garrett and > > > diving with him and Claudia. > > > > > > I wish everyone to know that I believe Garrett was a fine instructor and > > > probably the best one and diver in the country on the Inspiration. I > >will > > > feel his loss, and I think that we all will feel his loss in the diving > > > industry. He has been a positive influence to all those that understood > >him. > > > > > > Claudia, you have my best wishes. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Leon Scamahorn > > > CEO Innerspace Systems Corp. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> > > > To: <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:04 PM > > > Subject: Update on Florida job announcement > > > > > > > > >> I thought this might be of interest to the list... > > >> Cheers, > > >> Mike > > >> Association of Underwater Explorers > > >> http://www.mikey.net/aue > > >> > > >>> Important Update on Underwater Archaeology Employment Opportunity > > >>> > > >>> The Florida Department of State position for an Archaeological Field > > >>> Supervisor within the Bureau of Archaeological Research that was > > > advertised > > >>> on 5/30/01 has been changed to Archaeological Field Assistant. Due to > > >>> recent > > >>> personnel changes and a clarification of policy, the Bureau of Human > > >>> Resources decided to delete the Supervisor position and add the > >Assistant > > >>> position. Nonetheless, the starting salary will remain the same as > >the > > >>> Supervisor position ($22,045.68). The new Assistant position is now > > > being > > >>> officially advertised. > > >>> > > >>> This career service position with full benefits represents a rare > > >>> opportunity in Florida for a trained individual who seeks government > > >>> service > > >>> employment to pursue investigation, assessment, and documentation of > > >>> submerged cultural resources for the public benefit. > > >>> > > >>> Important Note: Those individuals who already have submitted > > > applications > > >>> for the now-defunct Supervisor position will automatically be > >considered > > >>> for > > >>> the Assistant position. The applications have been retained for > > >>> consideration, and one need not apply again. > > >>> > > >>> For those individuals who have not yet made application, there is an > >open > > >>> period of 14 days (June 25 through July 9) during which applications > >are > > >>> being accepted. Interested applicants should fill out a State of > >Florida > > >>> employment application and send it to the address below as soon as > > >>> possible. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Bureau of Human Resources > > >>> Florida Department of State > > >>> 107 W. Gaines Street, Room 266 > > >>> Collins Building > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > >>> > > >>> Applications must be received by 5 p.m. on July 9th, 2001. > > >>> > > >>> The official announcement can be viewed at: > > >> > > >> > >http://www.myflorida.com/oraweb/owa/www_cv.jobvac.detail?pvac_key=1042&preg > > > i > > >>> on=W > > >>> > > >>> The position announcement also will be posted on the Bureau's web site > > > at: > > >>> http://www.dos.state.fl.us/dhr/bar/jobs.html > > >>> > > >>> This posting outlines (a) a description of the position, (b) minimum > > >>> qualifications (c) preferred applicant qualifications, and (d) how to > > >>> obtain a State of Florida employment application by mail or from the > > >>> Internet. > > >>> > > >>> (a) Job Description for Archaeological Field Supervisor > > >>> The incumbent is to assist in the management of state-wide submerged > > >>> cultural resources. The incumbent will perform a range of functions > > > which > > >>> include conducting field surveys and site inspections; preparing and > > >>> presenting reports of archaeological findings in written and > >illustrated > > >>> form; monitoring and supervising exploration and salvage contracts and > > >>> related files; maintaining underwater site information databases; and > > >>> maintaining boats, vehicles, and underwater equipment. The position is > > >>> located within the Tallahassee office of the Bureau, but requires > > > periodic > > >>> and extended travel throughout the state. > > >>> > > >>> (b) The minimum professional qualifications require completion of a > > >>> training > > >>> program in scuba diving techniques and one year (or 30 hours) of scuba > > >>> diving experience; or one year of archaeological field experience; or > > >>> completion of 30 semester or 45 quarter hours of college coursework > >which > > >>> includes two courses in anthropology or archaeology. > > >>> > > >>> (c) Preferred qualifications include an undergraduate degree with a > >major > > >>> in > > >>> anthropology, archaeology, or related field and two years professional > > >>> experience, as well as a divemaster or instructor diving > >certification. > > >>> > > >>> Successful candidates shall be able to demonstrate their experience > >and > > >>> expertise in the following: > > >>> > > >>> Knowledge of underwater archaeological theory and methodology; of > > > cultural > > >>> resource management issues, policies, and laws; of underwater survey > >and > > >>> excavation techniques; and of remote sensing marine survey technology. > > >>> > > >>> Skills in public relations through personal and professional contacts; > >in > > >>> underwater archaeological recording and mapping; in diving techniques > >and > > >>> equipment; in the use of remote sensing survey equipment to conduct > > >>> professional level work; and in small boat handling and general marine > > >>> maintenance and repair > > >>> > > >>> Ability to work independently in the field and in report preparation. > > >>> Ability to work well with land managers, fishermen, sport divers, > > >>> exploration and salvage contractors, and the general public. > >Experience > > >>> with remote sensing survey work and underwater site mapping. > >Experience > > >>> and > > >>> skills in small boat handling. Experience and skills in maintenance > >and > > >>> repair of marine-related equipment. > > >>> > > >>> Ability to design and implement archaeological research of submerged > > > sites; > > >>> to conduct historical research; to use personal computer software; and > >to > > >>> write professional reports. Desire to travel throughout the state on > >a > > >>> regular basis. > > >>> > > >>> (d) A State of Florida employment application form can be obtained by > > >>> calling or writing to: > > >>> > > >>> Bureau of Human Resources > > >>> Collins Building, Room 266 > > >>> 107 W. Gaines Street > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > >>> Phone (850)245-6550 > > >>> > > >>> or, after noting the deadline, > > >>> > > >>> You may download the application form from the Internet by going to > >this > > >>> address: > > >>> http://www.state.fl.us/dms/hrm/jobsdirect/application.html > > >>> You also can apply online for the position at this address. > > >>> > > >>> You may wish to send photocopies of the application form, a > >professional > > >>> vita, and any other supporting materials to the address below for > > >>> simultaneous review. > > >>> > > >>> For further information, contact: > > >>> > > >>> Roger C. Smith, Ph.D. > > >>> State Underwater Archaeologist > > >>> Bureau of Archaeological Research > > >>> 500 South Bronough St. > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > >>> (850) 245-6444 > > >>> rsmith@ma*.do*.st*.fl*.us* > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >> > > >> ============================================================ > > >> To contact the list administrator, email > > >> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > >> listserv@mi*.ne* > > >> and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > >> unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > To contact the list administrator, email > > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ============================================================ > To contact the list administrator, email > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > listserv@mi*.ne* > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > unsubscribe FLTechDiver -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]