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Actually this is a post from George Irvine. I'm not sure what parameters for
"the bigger dives" are, esp. for George with his 10hr decos.

  Jim

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From: Ernie George <deepdiver86@ya*.co*>
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, VB Tech <vbtech@ci*.co*>,
Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, FlTechDiver@mikey.net
Subject: Re: Why the WKPP does not do bounce dives



Jim, 

I agree with your with your assessment of ascent form the 10 foot stop,
especially for longer deeper gas dives.  That is something I will employ on
my next dive.  I was wondering if you were prescribing an additional 10mins
of deco for ascent or leaving your last stop 10 mins early for the ascent.
I am a huge advocate of the RGBM.  I currenty split my 10 ft stop between
15ft and 10ft adding an extra few mins onto my 10ft for safety.  I have
found that I feel a bit cleaner when I follow this profile vs a standard
square decompression regiment.  Many Thanks.

Dive Safe, Ernie George

 Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> wrote:
WHY WE DO NOT BOUNCE DIVE AFTER DIVING IN THE WKPP

It is ok to offgas from the tissues into the blood stream in bubble form in
the later steps of decompression as it is a more efficient, faster way of
getting rid of the remaining gas ( by reduced pressure ) than by elevated
oxygen alone ( which starts taking exponentially more time with greater
risk) . However, this depends on having a good lung filter and no shunts.
All of you have been PFO tested if you are diving with us.

The correct way to ascend from the last stop is one foot per minute for the
bigger dives.

The greatest potential for offgassing in bubble form is when the pressure is
totally removed back to one ATA out of the water. Now you get a real shower
of bubbles , relative to what was happening in the water. A good , clean
deco with the foot per minute ascent reduces this dramatically .

In MOST people, the greatest bubbling occurs out of the water and continues
for up to four hours, not even peaking for a couple of hours. In a well
vascularized, fit person like me, it is over with in 30 minutes. Don't bet
on that with most of you.

In ALL people, the bubbles continue to grow in size after the pressure is
off. They accumulate like gas into themselves from the surrounding blood or
tissues ( if there are bubbles in the tissues or injury sites ) and they
grow bigger. This is why you feel pain later rather than earlier if the
bubbles are in joints or tissues - they get bigger before they begin to
shrink. This is why what starts out as micro bubbles can get by the lungs
and grow and get lodged downstream, and you get neurological symptoms
later.

Now here is the important part. If you understand everything I have said
above, then you know that bouncing to 20 feet or whatever to pick up a
bottle and immediately returning to the surface is the like giving yourself
a home-made PFO: the bubbles in the venous side compress enough to get past
the lungs and then will reexpand on the arterial side and lodge in the
worst places , the spine and brain blood supplies. You do not want this.

If you dive after dive, stay down and let everything reset. Get the bubbles
all compressed, and then deco out and ascend accordingly.

I do not want support divers diving support within four hours of doing a
real dive or deep support. This works out fine, since we have support
activities lasting up to 18 to 24 hours and need to rotate everyone.

Let me assure you that we have found this out the hard way in the past.
Parker used to get hot as hell when it would happen. In those days we had
"volunteers", and they would all get bent diving to 20 feet to pick up
bottles. We have also seen some severe cases of this where dives were done
away from the project with no support, and the players went back for bottles
later and got hammered.

Don't do it. Also, obviously, do not freedive after a dive. When you want to
freedive, do that first and then go scuba diving.

Any questions from WKPP guys?

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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Why the WKPP does not do bounce dives</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
Actually this is a post from George Irvine. I'm not sure what parameters fo=
r "the bigger dives" are, esp. for George with his 10hr decos.<BR>
<BR>
   Jim<BR>
<BR>
 -------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<B>From: </B>Ernie George <deepdiver86@ya*.co*><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:08:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
<B>To: </B>Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, VB Tech <vbtech@ci*=
tlantic.com>, Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, FlTechDiver@mike=
y.net<BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: Why the WKPP does not do bounce dives<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
 Jim, <BR>
<BR>
I agree with your with your assessment of ascent form the 10 foot stop, esp=
ecially for longer deeper gas dives.  That is something I will employ o=
n my next dive.  I was wondering if you were prescribing an additional =
10mins of deco for ascent or leaving your last stop 10 mins early for the as=
cent.  I am a huge advocate of the RGBM.  I currenty split my 10 f=
t stop between 15ft and 10ft adding an extra few mins onto my 10ft for safet=
y.  I have found that I feel a bit cleaner when I follow this profile v=
s a standard square decompression regiment.  Many Thanks. <BR>
<BR>
Dive Safe, Ernie George    <BR>
<BR>
  <B><I>Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*></I></B> wrote: <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>WHY WE DO NOT BOUNCE DIVE AFTER DIVING IN THE WKPP<BR>
<BR>
It is ok to offgas from the tissues into the blood stream in bubble form in=
<BR>
the later steps of decompression as it is a more efficient, faster way of<B=
R>
getting rid of the remaining gas ( by reduced pressure ) than by elevated<B=
R>
oxygen alone ( which starts taking exponentially more time with greater<BR>
risk) . However, this depends on having a good lung filter and no shunts.<B=
R>
All of you have been PFO tested if you are diving with us.<BR>
<BR>
The correct way to ascend from the last stop is one foot per minute for the=
<BR>
bigger dives.<BR>
<BR>
The greatest potential for offgassing in bubble form is when the pressure i=
s<BR>
totally removed back to one ATA out of the water. Now you get a real shower=
<BR>
of bubbles , relative to what was happening in the water. A good , clean<BR=
>
deco with the foot per minute ascent reduces this dramatically .<BR>
<BR>
In MOST people, the greatest bubbling occurs out of the water and continues=
<BR>
for up to four hours, not even peaking for a couple of hours. In a well<BR>
vascularized, fit person like me, it is over with in 30 minutes. Don't bet<=
BR>
on that with most of you.<BR>
<BR>
In ALL people, the bubbles continue to grow in size after the pressure is<B=
R>
off. They accumulate like gas into themselves from the surrounding blood or=
<BR>
tissues ( if there are bubbles in the tissues or injury sites ) and they<BR=
>
grow bigger. This is why you feel pain later rather than earlier if the<BR>
bubbles are in joints or tissues - they get bigger before they begin to<BR>
shrink. This is why what starts out as micro bubbles can get by the lungs<B=
R>
and grow and get lodged downstream, and you get neurological symptoms<BR>
later.<BR>
<BR>
Now here is the important part. If you understand everything I have said<BR=
>
above, then you know that bouncing to 20 feet or whatever to pick up a<BR>
bottle and immediately returning to the surface is the like giving yourself=
<BR>
a home-made PFO: the bubbles in the venous side compress enough to get past=
<BR>
the lungs and then will reexpand on the arterial side and lodge in the<BR>
worst places , the spine and brain blood supplies. You do not want this.<BR=
>
<BR>
If you dive after dive, stay down and let everything reset. Get the bubbles=
<BR>
all compressed, and then deco out and ascend accordingly.<BR>
<BR>
I do not want support divers diving support within four hours of doing a<BR=
>
real dive or deep support. This works out fine, since we have support<BR>
activities lasting up to 18 to 24 hours and need to rotate everyone.<BR>
<BR>
Let me assure you that we have found this out the hard way in the past.<BR>
Parker used to get hot as hell when it would happen. In those days we had<B=
R>
"volunteers", and they would all get bent diving to 20 feet to pi=
ck up<BR>
bottles. We have also seen some severe cases of this where dives were done<=
BR>
away from the project with no support, and the players went back for bottle=
s<BR>
later and got hammered.<BR>
<BR>
Don't do it. Also, obviously, do not freedive after a dive. When you want t=
o<BR>
freedive, do that first and then go scuba diving.<BR>
<BR>
Any questions from WKPP guys?<BR>
<BR>
-- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<=
BR>
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<BR=
>
<BR>
<BR>
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>
To contact the list administrator, email<BR>
Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*<BR>
To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:<BR>
listserv@mi*.ne*<BR>
and in the *BODY* of the message type:<BR>
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<HR ALIGN=3DCENTER SIZE=3D"1" WIDTH=3D"100%"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><B>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
</B>Yahoo! Mail Personal Address <http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=
=3Dmailiyfoot>  - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. <BR>
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