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At 10:00 AM 5/06/2001 , Capt JT wrote: >>In other industries you see a real DRIVE to get the best >>training. A camera operator I've known for decades went from >>New Zealand to London and swept studio floors and did real >>shit work in order to get the best training. He vcirtually lived >>on the streets 'till he could break into the union thing there >>and get a job in the film business. He's a very cool >>cinematographer now. > >Good for him, I wonder did he already have a job and kids, did he quit it and force his kids to live on the street with him, we are talking about a hobby (diving)in which almost everyone loses money or just gets by and some go under. JT, a couple of onservations: 1. If it's how a dive instructor makes a living, then there are other ways to make a living which don't involve flying the flag for a bottom of the barrel outfit. 2. If it's a hobby, then the instructor isn't supporting his wife and children by it, so he can afford to stop doing it wrong until he can do it right. >>JT, What is it about the dive instruction industry that so >>many are prepared to sit on their arses and wait for the >>circus to come to town? > >Its about $$$, time, and being just a hobby. I'll make you a deal, since you want it done right at all cost, you pay for Daves' GUE training and I'll cover his cost from being away from home, if you won't do that then just be quiet about it. JT, what I wrote and what you're arguing about are two different things. Once again: The potential for a problem exists with TDI and IANTD instructors who will claim to be teaching 'DIR' or offering 'teaching compatible with DIR' but who won't be teaching DIR at all. I also wrote that I didn't include Dave in this. In fact I wrote "(and I don't mean you specifically, I mean those lazy, opportunistic instroketors out there)." >>>But you still give advice on diving DIR on this list and your still waiting to (quote) " get the real deal from JJ and Trey" yourself, isn't that a double standard your talking? >> >>I'm not an instructor. I talk about the parts of DIR I understand >>(which is mostly the common sense parts). And about the worst >>excesses of the training agencies. I don't pretend to give DIR >>instruction. > >Where have I heard this before, lets see if I get this right. You have never taken a GUE course, never met JJ or Trey, you live in another country and I bet if you ask everyone there what DIR stands for, 99.99% will answer "Dick in Rear", give me a fucking break, I almost always have to straighten you Internet divers out all the time on DIR and I've never even taken one fucking class. Well one fucking class that would do you no harm is remedial reading. > I studied it, got inside info about it, dive with guys who have taken it(and yes I'm better than them in the water) and I practice what I preach, so does Dave, here let me give you a quote you've seen before "when you get to Daves' and my level you can talk".<G> and you not allowed to use my answer I gave to the same quote <G> JT, you are right. Your reports about the dives on which you almost kill yourself are not only hilarious, they are an object lesson on the importance of intelligent dive planning, and serve to 'straighten out' countless divers with regards to the value of DIR, as opposed to some aborted version of DIR. Keep it up, ace. rgds billyw >>All the best >> >>billyw >> >> >>>JT >>> >>> At 10:35 AM 6/2/01 +1000, billy@v3*.co*.au* wrote: >>>>At 05:32 AM 2/06/2001 , you wrote: >>>>>Bullshit - people do not do the research and read. TDI dropped the >>>>>Extended Range (Deep Air) requirement for Trimix two years ago. I tend >>>>>to believe that is from the drum beating the that George Irvine and >>>>>company have done about Deep Air BS. I am a TDI Instructora, although a >>>>>great deal of DIR technique and methodology is incorporated in the >>>>>classes I teach. >>>> >>>>David, the way I figure it, you can't just 'incorporate' a 'great deal' >>>>of DIR into a TDI or IANTD or ANDI course. >>>> >>>>Unless you INSIST on the DIR methodologies and attitudes throughout the >>>>course, and present it with all the expectations, disciplines and learnings, >>>>you're just putting shiny hubcaps on the same fucked old truck. >>>> >>>>It's not fair on your students to let them think they're getting close to >>>>the real DIR deal either.(and I don't mean you specifically, I mean those >>>>lazy, opportunistic instroketors out there). >>>> >>>>The result will be a bunch of people who do the long hose thing and think >>>>that's it, because their 'DIR' IANTD/TDI instroketor told them so. How can >>>>it be otherwise? >>>> >>>>If you want to teach DIR, drop that IANTD/TDI thing like a poisoned bag of >>>>shit and see if GUE will take you on as a DIR instructor candidate. >>>> >>>>Talk to JJ - arrangements can be made for the real stuff. Anything else is >>>>phoney - no controls - just the same old agency bullshit masquerading as >>>>the real thing, as usual. >>>> >>>>We've been diving as close as we can to DIR for three or four years now. >>>>But we're waiting for JJ and Trey to come over to Sydney early next year so >>>>we can get the real deal. (I want my Gavin and Hal80, too.) It's going to >>>>be good. But just watch for all the stroke instructors to come crawling >>>>out of the woodwork, do the GUE intro to tech course, and then >>>>afterwards, claim to their students they're teaching 'em 'DIR'. >>>> >>>>That kind of bullshit's gotta be killed before it kills, and there's only >>>>the 100%ers that can kill it. >>>> >>>>rgrds billyw >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I won't teach ER any more. If you want ER, find a new >>>>>instructor. If you are going to become a Tech Dive, do your research, >>>>>ask question. Do not just follow the crowd. I have thought long and hard >>>>>about changing to GUE as an instructor. It is hard to come up with the >>>>>time and money away from my business to spend it in FL for the course >>>>>work. >>>>> >>>>>I hope and believe that here are more instructor like me out there. >>>>> >>>>>David >>>>> >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Paul Braunbehrens [mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*] >>>>> > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:39 AM >>>>> > To: ScottBonis@ao*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>> > Subject: Re: deep air Please help >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > The problem is that people aren't aware of the options. They have an >>>>> > instructor that they've been working with, whom they trust, and then >>>>> > the guy says "OK, the next step is to do Deep Air". You try to >>>>> > argue, but the guy is adamant because he wants to make money on one >>>>> > more class. You figure he must know his stuff, and you do want to >>>>> > progress to trimix, so you feel you have no choice. It's classic, >>>>> > and it's criminal. >>>>> > >>>>> > <ScottBonis@ao*.co*> wrote: >>>>> > ~ >>>>> > >Hi Ed, >>>>> > > >>>>> > >I'm having difficulty understanding your message. How did >>>>> > an instructor >>>>> > >"FORCE" you to dive to 180 on air? Did he physically >>>>> > restrain you and pull >>>>> > >you down to that depth? >>>>> > > >>>>> > >I think you need to grow up and start to take some >>>>> > responsibility for your >>>>> > >own decisions. Yes IMHO, the instructor was wrong. Yes >>>>> > IMHO, the dive was >>>>> > >stupid. But yes, you choose to make the dive. So consider >>>>> > yourself lucky >>>>> > >that you dodged the bullet this time and learn from it. >>>>> > > >>>>> > >Take care and dive safe, Scott >>>>> > > >>>>> > >Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through >>>>> > the restraints and >>>>> > >scramble up out of the pit. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >In a message dated 5/31/2001 10:00 AM NyWrecker@ao*.co* writes: >>>>> > > >>>>> > ><< ... Ive only ben diving for about 3 years.Im VERRY aware >>>>> > of this deep air >>>>> > >shit BUT i have asked a few people for a limit and cant get >>>>> > an answer.To >>>>> > >start off the rec limit is 130 on air.Last summer i was >>>>> > FORCED to go to >>>>> > >150-160-3 times and 180 on it.The MOD on the 180 was 220.I >>>>> > know stupid BUT it >>>>> > >was with a TDI-IANTD instructor so what do you expect.I >>>>> > tried to get him to >>>>> > >let me use a mix but he wouldnt and i thought he wouldnt but >>>>> > i had to try... >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >-- >>>>> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>>>> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>>>> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Paul B. >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>>>> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>>>> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> > >>>>>-- >>>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>> >>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" >>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>>Email captjt@mi*.co* > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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