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Billy =20 This is the last public thing I will say about this. I do not have the time or in interest in a long threat. =20 1. You are making comments and statement without the knowledge ands research to make thoughts statements. You have not seen or have knowledge of classes or how thing are run, efforts to improve, or where I/we are in the DIR scheme of things. =20 2. All activities take time, money, and planning. I do not have a large corporation paying my way or even a small dive shop. It is ALL out of my pocket and my two daughters college fund. You figure where the priorities should be, I already know. =20 3. I doubt that I will ever seen the ROI in the form of cash monies for any additional training and credentials. I do not and refuse to teach the push them through method. I will certify until I believe they are well trained, experienced, and ready. =20 4. I do not claim and have not claimed to be a DIR expert, have not handed out directions and opinion here. I have address items that I do know about and try to help people with idiot instructors like the ones who tell there students you must "Do Deep Air or ER" before Trimix. It is simply not part of the standards anymore. I thanks George and his efforts in the past for that change in the standard. His does and is making a different. =20 I believe in and fully support the DIR methodology. Start with the attitude, through fitness, gear configuration, etc. =20 It's not perfect but it is a hell of allot better then the standard TDI, IANTD, etc. party line. =20 Why is it that so many of you want to beat up on those that are trying to achieve and do better. Why not look and work on the problems out there and help those that are headed in the right direction? =20 David -----Original Message----- From: billy@v3*.co*.au* [mailto:billy@v3*.co*.au*] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:51 AM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: deep air Please help. But NOT with PRETEND DIR. At 02:36 AM 3/06/2001 , Capt JT wrote: Hi Billy I have seen the results from Dave's classes and am happy with what I see (not that it means anything), having said that I would like to see him become an true GUE instructor. The problem is that some are unable to because of work commitments to travel to FL or anywhere for the extended time (not Extended Range ;o ) to become one. Its not like we have a GUE base right here. Look at it this way, you've been doing it for the 3 or 4 years as close as you can you say, waiting for JJ to come over. Why couldn't you and the others go to him, not that easy for everyone I know. If I was an instructor, I would have done what it took. I would have gone to Florida. Because it would have been my=20 job to be the best instructor I could possibly be. In other industries you see a real DRIVE to get the best training. A camera operator I've known for decades went from New Zealand to London and swept studio floors and did real shit work in order to get the best training. He vcirtually lived on the streets 'till he could break into the union thing there and get a job in the film business. He's a very cool=20 cinematographer now. JT, What is it about the dive instruction industry that so=20 many are prepared to sit on their arses and wait for the=20 circus to come to town? But you still give advice on diving DIR on this list and your still waiting to (quote) " get the real deal from JJ and Trey" yourself, isn't that a double standard your talking? I'm not an instructor. I talk about the parts of DIR I understand (which is mostly the common sense parts). And about the worst=20 excesses of the training agencies. I don't pretend to give DIR=20 instruction. All the best billyw JT At 10:35 AM 6/2/01 +1000, billy@v3*.co*.au* wrote: At 05:32 AM 2/06/2001 , you wrote: Bullshit - people do not do the research and read. TDI dropped the Extended Range (Deep Air) requirement for Trimix two years ago. I tend to believe that is from the drum beating the that George Irvine and company have done about Deep Air BS. I am a TDI Instructora, although a great deal of DIR technique and methodology is incorporated in the classes I teach. David, the way I figure it, you can't just 'incorporate' a 'great deal' of DIR into a TDI or IANTD or ANDI course. Unless you INSIST on the DIR methodologies and attitudes throughout the course, and present it with all the expectations, disciplines and learnings, you're just putting shiny hubcaps on the same fucked old truck. It's not fair on your students to let them think they're getting close to the real DIR deal either.(and I don't mean you specifically, I mean those lazy, opportunistic instroketors out there). The result will be a bunch of people who do the long hose thing and think that's it, because their 'DIR' IANTD/TDI instroketor told them so. How can it be otherwise? If you want to teach DIR, drop that IANTD/TDI thing like a poisoned bag of shit and see if GUE will take you on as a DIR instructor candidate. Talk to JJ - arrangements can be made for the real stuff. Anything else is phoney - no controls - just the same old agency bullshit masquerading as the real thing, as usual. We've been diving as close as we can to DIR for three or four years now. But we're waiting for JJ and Trey to come over to Sydney early next year so we can get the real deal. (I want my Gavin and Hal80, too.) It's going to be good. But just watch for all the stroke instructors to come crawling out of the woodwork, do the GUE intro to tech course, and then afterwards, claim to their students they're teaching 'em 'DIR'. That kind of bullshit's gotta be killed before it kills, and there's only the 100%ers that can kill it. rgrds billyw I won't teach ER any more. If you want ER, find a new instructor. If you are going to become a Tech Dive, do your research, ask question. Do not just follow the crowd. I have thought long and hard about changing to GUE as an instructor. It is hard to come up with the time and money away from my business to spend it in FL for the course work. I hope and believe that here are more instructor like me out there. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Braunbehrens [ mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* <mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*> ] > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:39 AM > To: ScottBonis@ao*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com > Subject: Re: deep air Please help > > > The problem is that people aren't aware of the options. They have an > instructor that they've been working with, whom they trust, and then > the guy says "OK, the next step is to do Deep Air". You try to > argue, but the guy is adamant because he wants to make money on one > more class. You figure he must know his stuff, and you do want to > progress to trimix, so you feel you have no choice. It's classic, > and it's criminal. > > <ScottBonis@ao*.co*> wrote: > ~ > >Hi Ed, > > > >I'm having difficulty understanding your message. How did > an instructor > >"FORCE" you to dive to 180 on air? Did he physically > restrain you and pull > >you down to that depth? > > > >I think you need to grow up and start to take some > responsibility for your > >own decisions. Yes IMHO, the instructor was wrong. Yes > IMHO, the dive was > >stupid. But yes, you choose to make the dive. So consider > yourself lucky > >that you dodged the bullet this time and learn from it. > > > >Take care and dive safe, Scott > > > >Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through > the restraints and > >scramble up out of the pit. > > > > > > > >In a message dated 5/31/2001 10:00 AM NyWrecker@ao*.co* writes: > > > ><< ... Ive only ben diving for about 3 years.Im VERRY aware > of this deep air > >shit BUT i have asked a few people for a limit and cant get > an answer.To > >start off the rec limit is 130 on air.Last summer i was > FORCED to go to > >150-160-3 times and 180 on it.The MOD on the 180 was 220.I > know stupid BUT it > >was with a TDI-IANTD instructor so what do you expect.I > tried to get him to > >let me use a mix but he wouldnt and i thought he wouldnt but > i had to try... > >>> > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > -- > Paul B. > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ <http://www.capt-jt.com/>=20 Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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