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>>>>>would the competition then heat up? This is a sport right?<<<<<< Your implication that cave diving is a competitive sport is way off base. There is no room in cave diving for any type of competitive one upsmanship. When divers start daring or pushing each other into going a little further or a little deeper they end up with someone dead. Thats not even close to what the sport is about. The real deal is to share the knowlege and information and to pass it on to others. Thats how everyone that has been doing it a while learned. Joe Citelli ----- Original Message ----- From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Re: Steve Berman > Thanks, for clarifying, only the good dye young! > However, with utmost respect, if you are in such a position that you control all the great caves in the USA as you say you are, and then don't you therefore have a monopoly? If you don't mind me saying that's not exactly fair sport. If let's just say you didn't (control the caves) and your team of 100 was to divide into several smaller DIR groups of maybe 25-50 players each or so of the same people you have trained, would the competition then heat up? This is a sport right? The last group that was in there was a clusterf*ck in my humble opinion and more of a bad joke then any sort of competition.:-) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*> > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"<techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Sun May 20 04:06:30 PDT 2001 > Subject: Re: Steve Berman > > > > >Terry, would you like to tell me what the history of the WKPP is, or is it > >ok for me to do it? The point is that we had a handful of people who would > >even try this stuff. The first guy always ready to go was Sheck, but he was > >new with the team. Gavin had dove with him once, I dove with him a few > >times. The regular three man team was Gavin, Lamar English and myself on > >survey. Lamar bailed one day and Exley stepped in, and then Exley and I dove > >to gether a bunch until he killed himself. He got right on the DIR thing > >other than the having to do stupid things like he did to kill himself. He > >was as cool as it gets in the toughest dives. He also was game for any crazy > >thing I dreamed up, and I miss him - he was like a kid. > > > >Most of the old time WKPP guys had quit , and those who remained had already > >drawn their own line in the sand. There was a sign along the highway to > >Tallahassee that said, "Prepare to meet thy maker". It used to freak > >everyone, and I wanted to tear it down, but was afraid to do so, but it > >finally rotted and fell down about the time we got serious about DIR in the > >WKPP. In the wings was my favorite dive partner, JJ, and he and I did all > >the other dives that Gavin was not on. Gavin had a thing about not diving > >with people under 30 after Sherwood died, and he had a thing about not > >diving the horrendous dives too much to save the wear and tear. At that > >point even a simple set up dive was what once had been world record dives at > >300 feet. JJ ate those up, and so did Exley, and of course as we now see > >with me, the wear and tear factor is a moot point if you DIR. > > > >We did not have enough qualified people to run the dives the way we do now > >where we send multiple teams to set up before the push team and then clean > >up after, so JJ and Exley and I did both the setups and the cleanups. The > >only reason my guys ( JJ, Casey, etc ) were not on the main dives is that > >the other guys were there first, and I since Lamar was my original dive > >partner from the time I was certified and Gavin right after that, those two > >took me as the next in line and I could survey the fastest. As far as > >ability to do these dives and tolerate anything, as well as deal with any > >thing and everything at once, JJ is the correct guy, and what makes me so > >"good" is knowing that all along , as well as knowing who not to let in the > >water. > > > >I hope this clarifies things. There are hundreds and hundreds of people who > >have helped with the WKPP at one time or another. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*] > >Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 9:30 PM > >To: Trey; Michael J. Black; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >Subject: Re: Re: Steve Berman > > > > > >>Back then JJ and Exley and I did all the setups , >cleanups and Gavin and I > >did all the dives. > > > >The world according to George? :-) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*> > >To: "Michael J. Black"<mjblackmd@ya*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com > >Date: Sat May 19 04:46:22 PDT 2001 > >Subject: Re: Steve Berman > > > >>Mike , show me the better way. Go ahead, we are all listening. You yapping > >>about people is not diving. Show me a better way to dive, show me your > >>methods and systems. > >> > >>Nobody will get on here who knew Berman and say anything different than > >what > >>JJ and I already said. > >> > >>I said , Berman came out to help a couple of times years ago, and decided > >he > >>did not want to do that kind of diving , and he did not want to do it my > >way > >>, and he did not want to do it my way off the field, or we could have used > >>him . Back then JJ and Exley and I did all the setups , cleanups and Gavin > >>and I did all the dives. Now we have over 100 people, so we no longer try > >to > >>change anyone to fit our methods, we go with those who want to do it our > >>way, and that goes for GUE as well. > >> > >>As I said, Mike, if I catch any WKPP member violating my rules on or off > >the > >>field, they are gone , and if JJ catches any GUE instructor not doing what > >>he wants, they are gone. How much clearer can it get, Mike? > >> > >>And maybe you can tell me what difference it makes anyway. If somebody does > >>something stupid, I will always say it was stupid. Everyone can see > >Berman's > >>dying for nothing is not the way to go. This is an interesting case simply > >>because Berman was such a long time diver and was skillful. On the other > >>hand there are a ton of can't walk and chew gum cases out there who think > >>solo diving is a good idea. Hopefully he set that record straight. > >Hopefully > >>Sheck set the record straight on diving with morons and diving deep air - > >>his 30 years of cave diving got extinguished in one bad move. Berman , > >Exley > >>and McGuire were a lot tougher than 99% of the divers in the world. They > >are > >>dead. They did not do it right. > >> > >>Let me point one more thing out to all you strokes: the reason I get access > >>everywhere? Those who let me dive know I will not let the Exleys dive air, > >>the Bermans dive solo, or the McGuire's dive bottles not properly marked, > >>and that is why I have the keys to the kingdom and the assholes who > >>constantly fight me get to dive at Ginnie. I can enforce it with my > >>authority, and I will set that example, and so will everyone around me or > >>they will not be around me for long. Again, you tell me the better way. > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Michael J. Black [mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*] > >>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:41 PM > >>To: Trey; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >>Subject: RE: FW: Steve Berman > >> > >> > >>Funny how you Doing-It-Rightists keep lying and denying, and it helps > >>your cause so much when you disagree among yourselves. Friends and > >>students of Berman's seem to think he was a GUE instructor who dived > >>DIR, and helped in the past with the WKPP. Next thing you know, you'll > >>be calling him a "stroke," "barnyard stupid." And what's the "body count" > >>for you guys now...McGuirre, Wolvo, Berman, who else? MJB > >> > >>--- Trey <trey@ne*.co*> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Mike, you believe what you want, but as usual, you are spreading lies > >that > >>> some bitter person put in your ear. You have no idea who these people are > >>or > >>> what you are talking about anyway, and there is not a single person on > >>here > >>> who does not recognize that. > >>> > >>> It is as we said. > >>> > >>> Steve Berman was not a GUE instructor. In remembering back when Steve > >did > >>> help with the WKPP, it was when Exley was still alive, so figure out how > >>> long ago that was. He showed up a couple of times, and I tried to get him > >>to > >>> run with the ball, but he told me that it was just not for him. > >>> > >>> Jarrod's way with GUE was not for him either so he did not become a GUE > >>> instructor, which he easily could have had he chosen to follow the path > >we > >>> follow, on and off the field. He did not. Where might he be now if he > >>were > >>> a GUE instructor? > >>> > >>> As I said, my players conduct their diving DIR on and of the field or I > >ax > >>> them, Jarrod's instructors display the GUE example or he axes them. End > >of > >>> story. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Michael J. Black [mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*] > >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:09 AM > >>> To: Aquanaut Mail > >>> Subject: Re: FW: Steve Berman > >>> > >>> > >>> Who do you wanna believe? > >>> > >>> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > >>> From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) > >>> Subject: RE: Ginnie Fatality > >>> Date: Fri, 11 May 2001, 07:52:52 - 0400 > >>> > >>> "He (Berman) did help with WKPP a while back, but like you (Black), he > >>> thought I was a huge asshole and did not want to do it my way." > >>> > >>> To: quest@gu*.co* > >>> From: JJ@gu*.co* (Jarrod Jablonski) > >>> Subject: Steve Berman > >>> Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:38:10 - 0400 > >>> > >>> "Steve (Berman) had nothing to do with the WKPP or with GUE." > >>> > >>> For the record, Berman was a GUE instructor who had helped in the past > >>> with the WKPP. He dived DIR, and died violating the DIR principle of > >>> no solo diving. And for the record, you can count on more lies, denials, > >>> hypocrisy, and death, from the Doing-It-Rightists. > >>> > >>> MJB > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________ > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > >>> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > >>> http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >>> -- > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'... > >>> > >> > >> > >>__________________________________________________ > >>Do You Yahoo!? > >>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > >>http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >>-- > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > >>-- > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > >___________________________________________________ > >GO.com Mail > >Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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