And what American corporation doesn't want to make a buck - Paul L., tell
me - do you work for free?

If so, I have a piles of s**t that needs to be picked up from all the morons
out there that truly think they know what they are talking about.  When are
you going to understand they EVERY agency turns out bad instructors and
EVERY agency needs to make money to stay in business.

BTW, let me guess - yourself and all the "I'm better than you crowd" - all
of you were all perfect examples of divers for day one - your skills were
perfect, you never made a mistake, you were just a bad-ass diver.  Come on
now, let's all grow up and admit we all took years to get where we are today
and we've all gone to the school of hard knocks.

And remember, not every diver out there wants to be just like you and the
rest of "the group" - most could careless about anything more than warm
tropical water following a guide around.

As far as PADI goes, remember they are not the only organization out there -
I don't see anyone else coming to bat to change things.  Its simple, there's
no need.  Diving is no different then any other sport, some people get it
and some don't - some quit and other go on and some die and some don't.

Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lewitsch" <plewitsch@ya*.co*>
To: "Paul Braunbehrens" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>; "Ian Puleston"
<DiverIan@pa*.ne*>; "Todd Sieber" <todd@un*.co*>;
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: WARNING - Coffee Alert


> The phone # says it all 1-800-pay-padi
> --- Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> wrote:
> > Ian, I agree with most of what you say, and I agree
> > that you *can*
> > turn out good students under the PADI system.  But
> > look, it's a
> > simple fact, PADI is the governing body watching
> > over the
> > instructors.   The fact that there is so much
> > substandard instruction
> > *must* be laid at PADI's feet, because there is no
> > one else.  Blaming
> > the individual instructors is pointless, as long as
> > PADI doesn't
> > change who can teach, they will remain the same.  It
> > must come from
> > PADI if we are to see a change.
> >
> > Ian Puleston wrote:
> > ~
> > >But the party line isn't "certify all that pay".
> > The PADI course standards
> > >clearly state that a student diver must "master"
> > every skill before going on
> > >to the next. The skills taught, if mastered by the
> > student, should be
> > >sufficient to bring the student to a level where
> > he/she can safely do easy
> > >dives and start to gain the experience to move on
> > up.
> > >
> > >The question is can a student master those skills
> > in the time frame of a
> > >typical course (usually 4 weeks or 2 weekends). My
> > observations have been
> > >that some can, some can't. If the instructor
> > certifies those that cannot
> > >then it is he that is at fault. Many instructors
> > push out sub-standard
> > >divers because doing it properly would mean
> > bringing those students back for
> > >further training, which would cost them (the
> > instructor) time and money.
> > >
> > >Then you have the question of what level of mastery
> > is required. A student
> > >who wants to go and dive warm water with a dive
> > guide while on vacation
> > >probably doesn't need to master the skills so well
> > as one who is going to
> > >dive unsupervised in a less-ideal environment.
> > That's a judgment call for
> > >the instructor, and again, a good instructor should
> > be prepared to tell a
> > >student that they need to come back for further
> > training where he thinks its
> > >needed.
> > >
> > >We all know that PADI's goal is to make money, and
> > that they want to turn
> > >out as many divers as possible to make as much
> > money as possible - PADI
> > >themselves admit to that. If they are at fault
> > here, which they probably
> > >are, it is in not enforcing the standards that they
> > have published. But it
> > >is primarily the instructors who are not meeting
> > those standards who are at
> > >fault.
> > >
> > >A good instructor can turn out good divers using
> > the PADI system. I know
> > >some very good cold water divers who came through
> > that system.
> > >
> > >>  -----Original Message-----
> > >>  From: Paul Braunbehrens
> > [mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*]
> > >>  Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:37 PM
> > >>  To: Todd Sieber; techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > >>  Subject: Re: WARNING - Coffee Alert
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Todd, as long as the party line is "certify all
> > that pay", the
> > >>  instructor is powerless.  There needs to be some
> > kind of line drawn,
> > >>  and if you can't cross that line you don't get
> > certified.  The
> > >>  agencies have been loosening the requirements,
> > if anything.  It's
> > >>  true that you can have good and bad instructors
> > in any system, but a
> > >>  good system is one that is able to adhere to a
> > minimum standard.  In
> > >>  my experience, PADI's minimum is not acceptable
> > for diving around
> > >>  here (Monterey).  Then again, maybe it's fine
> > for warm water no
> > >>  stress diving, I wouldn't know.
> > >>
> > >>  Todd Sieber wrote:
> > >>  ~
> > >>  >Paul,
> > >>  >
> > >>  >Look I'm on your side on the issue of some
> > people shouldn't get certified
> > >>  --
> > >>  Paul B.
> > >>  --
> > >>  Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >>  Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> > --
> > Paul B.
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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