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--0-278722862-983988711=:4130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry Billyw and Tray I was out of town for few days! billy@v3*.co*.au* wrote: Adam, I see from your 'handle' that you're a deep wreck diver. OK. You are on a deep wreck, say 250fsw. The visibility isn't great, there's a bit of current and you're working hard. It's also a leetle chilly so you're wearing your gloves - dry gloves or heavy wet gloves. Most of my diving is in Grate Lakes. It is always �little chilly� here nothing but dry gloves. We don�t get to enjoy 70 degree at 350 ft. ;-). Say you're ascending the line and you look at your tables to check your run-time 'cause you want to push it out a little bit, and through a slip or a clip, it doesn't matter what, your tables get away from you.No matter, you have your spares in your zipper pocket. So you reach down and tug on the zipper-pull and... you got some grit in the zip from wriggling through a sandy gap near the bottom of the wreck, or you graunched it against some concretions and the zipper jams or the pull breaks off, or the drysuit manufacturer put a tight fold on the zipper and the teeth have worn or they unlock and jam, or you get one of the other zipper failure modes that the other list-members have reported. So the gear you need - in this case your tables - stay in your pocket. I have been diving for a along time. The experience told me long time ago I don�t put anything that my life depends on in my pockets. Including spare tables. This is nothing to do with zipper vs Velcro issue. It is strictly a habit. No disrespect but you guys are failing to see the difference between diving environments. In cold environments such as Great Lakes, have their own set of complications such as bulky 1 to 2 layer dry glove liners and thick rubber dry glove over them. Gases you breath gets cold due to their nature and cold water it rapidly drops your body core temperature, which makes matters worse. In some cases we spend quite a bit of time in the water. During this time hands get very cold it is hard to manipulate thin lines or small clips to unclip stuff out of your pocket. This is the reason I don�t keep emergency related stuff in the pockets. All I keep in my pockets are, spare aiming light for a strobe and wide-angle lens for a camera. As Tray mentioned there are no corks, no rebreather parts, and no need for Chinese laundry guy to fix zipper. I didn�t figure you where putting life saving equipment in your pocket. Let me get this strait, you have an additional step in your emergency procedure which includes getting in to your pocket and screwing around with bunch of equipment that is clipped on to a bungee cord that you can�t see? Wyh? What happened to KEEP IT SIMPLE! Tray indicates he has 4/5 items in each pocket like a key ring including cork in a plastic bag and wire ties. Gentleman these are luxuries of warm water diving. ;-). These tasks might not be complicated when wearing nothing or thin gloves but it is very hard to do when ones hands are cold and wearing very thick bulky dry gloves. I, on the other hand, have a velcro pocket with my stuff clipped off inside. The only failure mode I have is if the velcro suddenly wears out mid-dive and lets go. Now, think this through, Adam. In our respective failure modes, Is my pocket locked open or shut? Is my stuff accessible or not? Is yours? Again your respective failure mode depends on your entry in to your pockets. This does not apply to me because my emergency procedures on my respective failure mode don�t include my pockets. I have eliminated that step. So the contents of my pockets are all ways secure. My life does not depend on the zipper or Velcro. OK. Here's the learning: Don't put anything in a zip pocket that you might need during the dive, because you might not be able to access it. So why have the zipper pocket in the first place? rgds billyw Yep! There is my learning! If you dive in warm waters you get to take everything but the kitchen sink with you, including a cork! >Tray Wrote on Sat, 3 Mar 2001 06:43:24 >The big problem with dive gear is too many cooks in the kitchen: everyone wants to come up with some slick idea. There is nothing new under the sun. Keep it simple, avoid creating problems that come with thinking too hard about something that needs to be reflex perfect and not convoluted. Yes, Tray you are absolutely right. There are too many cooks in the kitchen: everyone wants to come up with some slick idea. Not every idea works in every environment such as this one. Remember as you said KEEP IT SIMPLE! And keep an open mind about ideas that is how we will learn from each other and prosper. Cheers Adam. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. --0-278722862-983988711=:4130 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <P> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Sorry Billyw and Tray<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I was out of town for few days! </SPAN><B><I></I></B></P> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <P><B><I>billy@v3*.co*.au*</I></B> wrote: <BR>Adam, I see from your 'handle' that you're a deep wreck diver. </P> <P>OK. You are on a deep wreck, say 250fsw. The visibility isn't great, there's a bit of current and you're working hard. It's also a leetle chilly so you're wearing your gloves - dry gloves or heavy wet gloves.</P> <P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Most of my diving is in Grate Lakes.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is always �little chilly� here nothing but dry gloves. We don�t get to enjoy 70 degree at 350 ft. ;-).<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P>Say you're ascending the line and you look at your tables to check your run-time 'cause you want to push it out a little bit, and through a slip or a clip, it doesn't matter what, your tables get away from you.No matter, you have your spares in your zipper pocket. So you reach down and tug on the zipper-pull and... you got some grit in the zip from wriggling through a sandy gap near the bottom of the wreck, or you graunched it against some concretions and the zipper jams or the pull breaks off, or the drysuit manufacturer put a tight fold on the zipper and the teeth have worn or they unlock and jam, or you get one of the other zipper failure modes that the other list-members have reported. So the gear you need - in this case your tables - stay in your pocket. <FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">I have been diving for a along time.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The experience told me long time ago I don�t put anything that my life depends on in my pockets.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Including spare tables. This is nothing to do with zipper vs Velcro issue. It is strictly a habit. No disrespect but you guys are failing to see the difference between diving environments.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In cold environments such as Great Lakes, have their own set of complications such as bulky 1 to 2 layer dry glove liners and thick rubber dry glove over them.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Gases you breath gets cold due to their nature and cold water it rapidly drops your body core temperature, which makes matters worse.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In some cases we spend quite a bit of time in the water. During this time hands get very cold it is hard to manipulate thin lines or small clips to unclip stuff out of your pocket. This is the reason I don�t keep emergency related stuff in the pockets.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All I keep in my pockets are, spare aiming light for a strobe and wide-angle lens for a camera.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As Tray mentioned there are no corks, <SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">no </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 13.5pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">rebreather parts, and no need for </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 13.5pt">Chinese laundry guy to fix zipper.</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 13.5pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN>I didn�t figure you where putting life saving equipment in your pocket.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Let me get this strait, you have an additional step in your emergency procedure which includes getting in to your pocket and screwing around with bunch of equipment that is clipped on to a bungee cord that you can�t see? Wyh? What happened to KEEP IT SIMPLE! <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Tray indicates he has 4/5 items in each pocket like a key ring including cork in a plastic bag and wire ties.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Gentleman these are luxuries of warm water diving. ;-). These tasks might not be complicated when wearing nothing or thin gloves but it is very hard to do when ones hands are cold and wearing very thick bulky dry gloves. </FONT></P> <P>I, on the other hand, have a velcro pocket with my stuff clipped off inside. The only failure mode I have is if the velcro suddenly wears out mid-dive and lets go. Now, think this through, Adam. In our respective failure modes, Is my pocket locked open or shut? Is my stuff accessible or not?<BR>Is yours?<BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Again your respective failure mode depends on your entry in to your pockets. This does not apply to me because my emergency procedures on my respective failure mode don�t include my pockets. I have eliminated that step. So the contents of my pockets are all ways secure. My life does not depend on the zipper or Velcro. </SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <P><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2>OK. Here's the learning: Don't put anything in a zip pocket that you might need during the dive, because you might not be able to access it. So why have the zipper pocket in the first <BR>place?<BR>rgds billyw<BR></FONT><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Yep! There is my learning! If you dive in warm waters you get to take everything but the kitchen sink with you, including a cork! </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">>Tray Wrote on </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sat, 3 Mar 2001 06:43:24 </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">>The big problem with dive gear is too many cooks in the kitchen: everyone wants to come up with</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> some slick idea. There is nothing new under the sun. Keep it simple, avoid creating problems that come with thinking too hard about something that needs to be reflex perfect and not convoluted.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Yes, Tray you are absolutely right. There are too many cooks in the kitchen: everyone wants to come up with some slick idea. Not every idea works in every environment such as this one. Remember as you said KEEP IT SIMPLE! And keep an open mind about ideas that is how we will </FONT>learn from each other and prosper.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Cheers</SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"></SPAN><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Adam.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br> <a href="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=mailiyfoot">Yahoo! Mail Personal Address</a> - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. --0-278722862-983988711=:4130-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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