I think what JT may be referring to are those idiots who did that
clusterfuck dive searching for those uneatable, ugly-assed fish who too
stupid to realize they are extinct. From what I've read it sounds like the
fellow with the halcyon did not quite know what he was doing, got task
loaded, had a lame buddy team, and then paid the price.

I don't think that any rebreather can be made idiot-proof, or at least as
idiot-proof as an open circuit rig. There are rebreathers out there that are
so complex that they appear to take all the fun out of diving, i.e. the
surplus navy Mk15's, the cis-lunars (RIP) and the fundamentally flawed buddy
expirations. And who was that dumb-ass company who said their unit was good
down to 1000'?

JT may be on to something however, and that is to make the limitations of
open-circuit also be your limitation as to what kind of dives you are
willing to attempt. As long as you are sticking to rule of thirds then it's
your red-line, one which does not exist for a rebreather. Around here a
rebreather may give you the extra time needed to extricate yourself from a
bottom problem, but will you survive the accumulated deco?

IMHO, if you compare the Halcyon failure mode to electronic units combined
with it's track record it appears that if rebreathers are what you cannot
live without (no pun intended) then the Halcyon may be the best thing going.
But somewhere, somehow, some moron is going to get a hold of one and kill
himself with it, just like the same morons do with open circuit.

Now George there is a good chance I am full of shit on this, as I cannot
talk from rebreather experience, but am I more or less correct?

   Jim

 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> Date: 6 Mar 2001 20:01:22 -0500
> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, vbtech@ci*.co*, Kevin Connell
> <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> 
> The bullshit I am talking about is his rebreather comment. That is the lie.
> The "these guys" I was referring to in the other comment are not VB.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:25 AM
> To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*;
> captjt@mi*.co*
> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> 
> 
> George-
> 
> While I have read plenty of bullshit posts on this list about improbable
> profiles I must say that I have never read JT or anybody else associated
> with VBtech tell anything but the truth on actual bottom times and deco
> schedules.
> 
> On the contrary we listen very closely to your continuing research on
> extreme diving survival strategies and JT and his dive partners have done
> much over the years to apply deep stops, Trimix deco gases and other
> techniques you, JJ and the WKPP have pioneered and made available to fellow
> techdivers.
> 
> And you yourself have said that the Ocean is no place for WKPP style bottom
> times and we agree completely, there are too many variables associated with
> ocean diving to screw around with hours-long deco, particularly up here in
> the north. Heroic bottom times are not a part of our tech diving and never
> will be. I do agree with you that a deep scooter should be a prerequisite
> for this type of high current diving, if you don't have one it appears that
> it's pretty much a crapshoot on getting to your target.
> 
> Jim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> 
>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
>> Date: 6 Mar 2001 05:47:36 -0500
>> To: Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
>> vbtech@ci*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>> 
>> Kev, these guys bounce to a wreck and spend two minutes and call it 30,
> and
>> then deco for a week. That is the one or two they actually hit. The rest
> are
>> sand drift dives in the Gulf Stream that take all day.
>> 
>> When we do it we get my brother's or fathers boat or charter other persons
>> who have fast boats with excellent fishing sounders that will mark
> anything,
>> and sometimes we run a second boat as well. We mark them with the Cuban
> hand
>> reel and grouper ball with the freediving float and then scooter from up
>> current down to the line and then along the line below the current to the
>> wreck, and when we are done, we cut the grouper ball off and reel up the
>> float line and deco out on the drift. I have a stockpile of 40 pound iron
>> "balls" for this. They hit every time with the Cuban reel and the tuna
> line
>> . For longer projects, we charter a boat for the time it takes to get it
>> done, like the Bahamian stuff that Carmichael was doing. That was all
>> massive depth and no bullshit or misses - ever.
>> 
>> For the regular weenie wrecks we mark them with a hook and line and
> scooter
>> in, secure the line, dive, then pull the hook and drift with the float.
>> 
>> Scooters and rebreathers for the crazy stuff. Double 80's for the weenie
>> wrecks.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:59 PM
>> To: dwiden@ho*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>> 
>> 
>> You guys sure get your panties in a wad easy.
>> 
>> The point is this:  You can kill yourself doing anything.   Using the
>> argument "people die on rebreathers" is not a reason not to dive one in
>> general.   What's next?  Don't use a proper scooter because they might
>> actually allow you to get something done on a dive and you only can find
>> one wreck a year so you might get bored?
>> 
>> At 08:00 PM 3/5/2001 -0500, David B. Widen wrote:
>>> Kevin
>>> 
>>> So what is the purpose of your post. If you have nothing reasonable (good
>> or
>>> bad) to say about an activity then do not waste the bandwidth.
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*]On
>>> Behalf Of Kevin Connell
>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:08 PM
>>> To: trey@ne*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> JT, Do you drive a car? Ride in an airplane?  I'm not even sure you can
>>> walk, because legs have been known to kill people.
>> 
>> --
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>> 
>> 
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> 
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