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In a message dated 10/23/00 8:05:26 AM Central Daylight Time, Steven.Schultz@sp*.gc*.ca* writes: << I am not a cave diver, but I am an ice diver. I do not dive ice like a cave yet, but I plan to in the future. You say that ice is not the same as a cave. When did you dive a cave last? I see similarities between cave and ice. They are both overhead environments with (for the most part) a single entry and exit point. >> I am both a cave diver and an ice diver. I am relatively new to cave diving but I have been doing regular ice dives for 25 years, whenever the water turns hard on top. Otherwise, most of my diving is on the wrecks of the Great Lakes where I use techniques which are nearly identical to cave diving techniques. These are all overhead environments, but each is different and presents its own challenges. For example, on the average ice dive there simply is no place to make line tie-offs under water and dragging 200 feet of #22 line around with no tie-offs is an entanglement hazzard. <> I have no problem with a trained cave diver using cave diving techniques under ice, provided he has been trained by an experienced ice diver as well. Actually, there are times, under certain conditions, that I would do so. <<My biggest complaint about PADI ice diving is that on top of the DIR harness with its 3 simple D-rings, you have another harness with a lot of D-rings. This is not DIR.>> Why in the world would an instructor advocate something so stupid as to put a harness over a harness? When I teach recreational divers to ice dive I have them attach their line to their scuba harness, as long as there is no way that they can slip out of it. Only if they are using a BC jacket with no suitable attachment point do I have them use a seperate harness. Then, I have them put on a simple light sailor's harness *under* their BC. I do not think any of this is outside of PADI standards. <<Then you have a rope attached, and when you are done your dive, you get hauled in by the line handler. I think that is unsafe and I'd like to find an alternative to this. >> I agree that such a proceedure is both stupid and dangerous. It makes me wonder what kind of idiot taught you to ice dive. The diver should always swim up and back under his own power. Only if the diver signals his tender to pull him up (in an emergency) should this happen. Dive safely, Dale -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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