Don, you are correct, it is all bullshit. I used welding helium for 8 years
until IANTD staged at triple killing in a gas class in Palm Beach, and then
Broward WELDING would not sell me anything but USP thereafter for fear that
the diving accidents would trigger suits against everyone, including the gas
supplier.

I'd love to see one of these accidents cost that idiot Mouth instead of the
rest of us .

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Hoover <Don.Hoover@ds*.co*>
To: Flank, Bernard <Bernard.Flank@tu*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>;
Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on


I have seen, in Houston, gas production operations.  In the small plant that
I observed, the He that was produced for welding grade and that used for
other grades all went through the same filtering systems.  The difference
was in the QA.  Higher grade was inspected to ensure that it meet the higher
standards but the process was not different for its production.  You paid
more for the higher grade because someone took a sample every hour to ensure
that the process was producing the higher grade all the time.  However, this
was a small producer, you may want to sample a larger population of gas
producers, but from a cost standpoint, the process cost no more to produce
the higher quality and it is continuous, thus saving producer costs.  So you
are purchasing a piece of paper to verify that you are getting the same
quality of gas at any grade:))

-----Original Message-----
From: Flank, Bernard [mailto:Bernard.Flank@tu*.co*]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:12 AM
To: 'Scott'; Capt JT; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on


FWIW, the Navy's standards for Helium are (from the US Navy Diving Manual):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
4-3.3 Diver's Breathing Helium. Helium used for diver's breathing gas shall
      meet Military Specification, MIL-P-27407B Propellant Pressurizing
      Agent Helium, Type I Gaseous Grade B, Respirable Helium. The purity
      standards are contained in Table4-4.

Table 4-4. Diver's Compressed Helium Breathing Purity Requirements.
Constituent Specification
Helium (percent by volume) 99.997%
Moisture (water vapor) 7 ppm (max)
Dew Point (not greater than) -78°F
Hydrocarbons (as Methane) 1 ppm (max)
Oxygen 3 ppm (max)
Nitrogen + Argon 5 ppm (max)
Neon 23 ppm (max)
Hydrogen 1 ppm (max)
Reference: Military Specification
MIL-PRF-27407B
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------

Acceptable certification of this gas purity is unlikely to be available with
welding grade He.  Doesn't mean the He isn't just as good - just means it's
not been documented.

Using Navy standards to discuss non-military diving may be comparing apples
and oranges.

B.L. Flank

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:00 AM
To: Capt JT; techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey
Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on



JT wrote:


> The
> only
> > draw back is what the shop has to pay for the He and then it is past on
to
> > the diver, if it was not for the "Lawyers" who would surely say it is
> > unsafe in court to make a buck , everyone would be using welding gas.

I think this is a bullshit issue, easily shot in the ass.

As far as I know, there is no *law* saying you must use USP gas for diving,
the Navy certainly doesn't. I have gas blender shingles from IANTD and TDI,
and both texts suggest very strongly that USP be used, but I am aware of no
legal requirement. I will concede right now that I could be wrong here, and
if I am, would someone with the dope please post it, code and all.

With O2, its remotely possible for a welding shop with crap equipment (no
check valves) and idiots at the torches, to back fill acetylene into an O2
bottle. Even so, the bottles are evacuated before filling, or we would have
some gas suppliers with holes in their buildings. No such problem exists
with He. He is used as a shield gas for Tungsten Inert Gas welding (TIG),
and is *never* (in my experience) connected to any system that has another
gas connected to it, least of all a flammable gas, as He is inert. Any
contaminants in the He would seriously affect weld quality, and since He is
used to weld exotic metals (spelled "$$$$") used mostly in Aerospace, I have
no problems what so ever with using industrial He. The chances of a gas
supplier getting sued for selling bad gas, and causing an airplane with 100
people to fall screaming to their deaths, is much more likely than a suit
involving SCUBA divers.

We use ABO and industrial grade He.

Scott



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