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Trey, I will agree, the tapes are the best way for those that do not know how to mix to see it done like it should be or take a class, but then its money again if you do that, may be to wrong guy. Mixing is not a big deal. At 06:54 AM 10/1/00 -0400, you wrote: >JT, good to point this stuff out. Let me suggest that people use my mixing >protocol ( DIRI and DIR II ) and our bottle marking scheme, and deployment >scheme to avoid the only idiosyncratic risk in gas diving. > > > > Yes, it makes more sense now. I think Dave and I were talking the Big > > Picture, you were just talking hose and basic fittings. You have to have > > the connection for the scuba tanks, I got the "combination tank checker" > > which has everything and removed the gauge and added quick disconnects to > > it, the hose and gauge. That allowed me to do several things with it, I >had > > my hose made at a hose shop, high pressure/SS 1/4 MNPT on the ends(54 > > dollars 6ft). The tank checker was around 125 dollars, I got 2 of them one > > for each end, then added quick disconnects to them and to the 02 & He > > bottle adapters, now I can go from Din to Din, Yoke to Yoke,Yoke to Din, >02 > > or He to Din or Yoke and still use them as pressure checkers. I added a > > control valve and better gauges later on. This can be seen on my site >right > > now on the gear tips page under "Mixing Kit" www.capt-jt.com I should > > have the "Bottles" page up by tomorrow. Mixing is not rocket science, the > > problem most have with it is "self confidence", one thing VBtech does when > > we prepare for a dive, you are invited and encourage to help and be >present > > at your own mixing of your tanks. You do not need a card for that. The >only > > draw back is what the shop has to pay for the He and then it is past on to > > the diver, if it was not for the "Lawyers" who would surely say it is > > unsafe in court to make a buck , everyone would be using welding gas. > > > > At 02:46 PM 9/30/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > >JT, I'm saying you can get that all from the gas > > >supplier with the exception of the part that fits > > >the scuba tank, not that you do not need it. I think > > >we are missing each other here someplace on this. > > >The other end gets the threaded fitting that goes > > >with the flex hose fittings. > > > > > >Anyway, the point is that one does not have to take > > >a beating to do this, or deal with dive shop > > >officiousness and card waving strokes. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > > >To: George "Trey" Irvine <trey@ne*.co*>; > > >dwiden@ho*.co* <dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' > > ><scottk@hc*.co*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com > > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:39 PM > > >Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on > > >and on > > > > > > > > > >Trey, you are exactly right, but you must point out > > >that the whip you speak > > > >of only goes one way. If you are doing stage mixes > > >and they are yoke, you > > > >will need an adapter, you also need to be able to > > >go to 02 or He cylinder = > > > >more parts or second whip. > > > >The welding dealers here will sale you the gas, but > > >you must have a > > > >contract and pay cylinder rental. This is no new > > >world for me, I have never > > > >used anything but welding gas. > > > >It is also a fact that more than one or 2 or even 3 > > >cylinders must be used > > > >to obtain a fill in a set of doubles with a high He > > >content, more so when > > > >filling your own 02 deco tanks when doing a > > >pressure fill. I am constantly > > > >cycling out the low cylinders and putting new full > > >ones at the end of the > > > >"line" to have the high pressure one needs from > > >doing the transfer pressure > > > >fill procedure. > > > >A booster pump makes it much easier, I will venture > > >to say I make less > > > >income than any diver who dives as much as I do and > > >I do not do deep air. > > > >It is a real burden for me, but it proves that if I > > >can do it, so can those > > > >who should quit diving deep air and be real > > >leaders. > > > > > > > > At 08:24 PM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > >>JT, I have Sherwood parts and the flex hose , T's > > > >>and fittings that come from the gas supplier. 80 > > > >>bucks. The difference between the "grades" of > > > >>helium is the prices and the number of times they > > > >>vacuum the bottles. It all comes from the same > > >tank. > > > >> > > > >>The suppliers here will not sell welding for > > >diving > > > >>due to the accidents, but if one wanted to open an > > > >>account as a welding operation, one could, but I > > >get > > > >>it delivered to the house. I'll pay the extra for > > > >>the convenience. > > > >> > > > >>I realize this is Brave New World for most of you, > > > >>but get serious, it is dead nuts simple. > > > >> > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > > >>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > > > >>To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; dwiden@ho*.co* > > > >><dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > > >>techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >>Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:03 PM > > > >>Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes > > >on > > > >>and on > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Actually your both right and both wrong. No one > > > >>here gets He and 02 as > > > >> >cheap as I do. Of all the postings I've seen on > > > >>prices, no one comes even > > > >> >close to my price. Then again I am using > > >Industrial > > > >>grade gas ( better > > > >> >known as welding gas) I do not offer it to > > >anyone > > > >>else as it becomes a > > > >> >hassle for me to get and not everyone is > > > >>comfortable with it, some think > > > >> >they must have medical grade gas. Those that > > >must > > > >>purchase He though a dive > > > >> >shop, must pay the higher price because they, in > > > >>the best interest of the > > > >> >customer must use the medical grade gas, which > > >is > > > >>much higher in cost. If > > > >> >they did not and something happen surely a dive > > > >>Lawyer of some kind would > > > >> >get involved. Also I saw mentioned of a price > > >for > > > >>330cuft of He. There is > > > >> >not a cylinder for that amount. A "T" bottle of > > >He > > > >>holds 286 cuft at 2,640 > > > >> >psi and a "K" bottle holds 213 cuft at 2,200 > > >psi. > > > >>There is a seldom used > > > >> >cylinder called a HC-500 which holds 432 cuft at > > > >>4,500 psi , but I have > > > >> >been unable to get one. Those that have been to > > >my > > > >>home and seen the rows > > > >> >of He and 02 can't believe I keep that much > > >here. > > > >> I also have argon) > > > >> >As for the whip, yes you can purchase a piss > > >poor > > > >>whip for 80 dollars, that > > > >> >has no Gauge and is as short as my dick. I have > > >the > > > >>most advance portable > > > >> >transfer whip "kit" made, with gauges, hose, > > > >>anlayzer, quick disconnects > > > >> >that allow me to do everything I need in a > > > >>transfer. The 80 dollars won't > > > >> >buy the pelican box that carries the stuff.It > > >did > > > >>not come from a dive shop. > > > >> >Sometime this weekend I will put on my site all > > >the > > > >>facts about the 02,He > > > >> >T&K bottles and others along with details and > > > >>photos, I have often heard > > > >> >people ask what the difference was, from this > > >post > > > >>you all should know now. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >At 08:38 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > >> >>ALL BULLSHIT - grade of helium means nothing. > > >Here > > > >>in SF we have to use USP > > > >> >>because of the accidents that Mouth's idiots > > >have > > > >>had, but "welding" helium > > > >> >>is fine. The parts can be obtained from the gas > > > >>supplier, a whip is about 80 > > > >> >>bucks absolute MAX . You idiots are just used > > >to > > > >>the standard dive industry > > > >> >>bullshit. > > > >> >> > > > >> >>----- Original Message ----- > > > >> >>From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*> > > > >> >>To: 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > > >><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >> >>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:03 AM > > > >> >>Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat > > >goes > > > >>on and on > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Scott > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > I do not know where in the world you are but > > > >>for USP HE I wish we could > > > >> >>get > > > >> >> > it from the suppliers for .13 ft. You are > > > >>probably getting welding grade > > > >> >>for > > > >> >> > that. Plus you need to add the tank > > > >>rental/delivery charges and unusable > > > >> >>gas > > > >> >> > (can get it all out) cost to the cu ft > > >charge. > > > >>The last time I check, a > > > >> >>good > > > >> >> > HE/O2 Parcial Pressure filler whip with > > >gauges > > > >>is $600-$800, O2 analyzer, > > > >> >> > ignore the compressor and labor. What are > > >parts > > > >>of the business are there > > > >> >> > cover. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > David > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> >> > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] > > > >> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:13 > > >AM > > > >> >> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey > > > >> >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the > > >beat > > > >>goes on and on > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > The next thing we have to work on is a way > > >to > > > >>get the > > > >> >> > > agencies to embrace > > > >> >> > > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the > > >hands > > > >>of advanced level > > > >> >> > > recreational > > > >> >> > > divers. I have been turning people on to > > >HOTx > > > >>for 6 months, > > > >> >> > > but there are > > > >> >> > > several problems: > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot > > > >>for He, which is > > > >> >> > > ludicrous, since > > > >> >> > > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The > > >typical > > > >>reasons are > > > >> >> > > "because I have to > > > >> >> > > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a > > > >>parallel, one of my > > > >> >> > > buds has an > > > >> >> > > office supply biz. He has two copiers that > > > >>cost more than any > > > >> >> > > compressor, > > > >> >> > > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and > > >.25 > > > >>a copy from the > > > >> >> > > other. Others > > > >> >> > > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120 > > > >>dollars. We can > > > >> >> > > double the money > > > >> >> > > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around > > >$28 > > > >>to $32 for most > > > >> >> > > dubs. This rip > > > >> >> > > off has to be brought to light as well. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of > > > >>TDI or IANTD > > > >> >> > > training to be able > > > >> >> > > to use the gas, which, in reality, is > > >*safer* > > > >>than air for diving. > > > >> >> > > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me > > > >>who will do a fill > > > >> >> > > for people I > > > >> >> > > know, they are unable to use the gas > > >anywhere > > > >>else, unless > > > >> >> > > they blend it in > > > >> >> > > their garage, which many are doing. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the > > > >>gas, and he was > > > >> >> > > amazed at how > > > >> >> > > much better he felt afterwards. Normally, > > >his > > > >>hands really > > > >> >> > > hurt after diving > > > >> >> > > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't > > > >>have that effect. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > I brought this up to the "instructor base" > > > >>over on rec.scuba, and they > > > >> >> > > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI > > >and > > > >>IANTD totally > > > >> >> > > missed the ball > > > >> >> > > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix > > > >>course", which is > > > >> >> > > just another way > > > >> >> > > to separate you from your money. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just > > > >>remember the noise made when > > > >> >> > > Nitrox was suggested for recreational > > >divers. > > > >>Mountains of > > > >> >> > > dead divers were > > > >> >> > > predicted... > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Scott > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> > > > >> >> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong > > > >><divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM > > > >> >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the > > >beat > > > >>goes on and on > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > If all of us insist that these guys do > > > >>things properly , > > > >> >> > > then they will > > > >> >> > > find > > > >> >> > > > a way to do that. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > The problem is that when idiots like > > > >>Gilliam get into the > > > >> >> > > mix, we all > > > >> >> > > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000 > > > >>miles to dive in a > > > >> >> > > great spot and > > > >> >> > > > doing it on air. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey, > > > >>where the Seeker > > > >> >> > > idiots proudly > > > >> >> > > dive > > > >> >> > > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney" > > >bottles > > > >>of air with air > > > >> >> > > in doubles > > > >> >> > > > just to be sure there is no mistake > > >about > > > >>how dumb they are) with > > > >> >> > > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They > > > >>serve a clientele > > > >> >> > > of strokes. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to > > >be > > > >>idiots, the > > > >> >> > > better it will be > > > >> >> > > for > > > >> >> > > > all of us. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> >> > > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > >> >> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >> >> > > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*> > > > >> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37 > > >PM > > > >> >> > > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat > > > >>goes on and on > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > List: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > There has been some confusion about my > > > >>views, and what I > > > >> >> > > did or did not > > > >> >> > > > say > > > >> >> > > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip. Most of > > > >>these messages were in the > > > >> >> > > private > > > >> >> > > > > forum, but I want to say all this in > > >the > > > >>open. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air > > > >>diving, diving > > > >> >> > > below 130' without > > > >> >> > > > > Helium, or any diving operation > > >involved > > > >>with Brett > > > >> >> > > Gilliam, TDI, or any > > > >> >> > > > of > > > >> >> > > > > his buddies. The shop I work for is > > > >>taking a trip to > > > >> >> > > Truk, on the boat > > > >> >> > > > > Odyssey. This vessel, at the > > >encouraging > > > >>of Bret > > > >> >> > > Gilliam, allows *and* > > > >> >> > > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of > > > >>200, because > > > >> >> > > Gilliam says in the > > > >> >> > > > > ocean you are safe to that depth. I > > >DO > > > >>NOT agree. It is > > > >> >> > > very clear > > > >> >> > > that > > > >> >> > > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter > > > >>company is falling > > > >> >> > > victim to his > > > >> >> > > > > stupidity. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to > > > >>several members of > > > >> >> > > the trip that > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > > answer is to limit the diving on the > > >trip > > > >>to depths of > > > >> >> > > 130 or shallower, > > > >> >> > > > or > > > >> >> > > > > not go at all. (Helium, which is > > > >>available, is *very* > > > >> >> > > expensive, so my > > > >> >> > > > > thinking is that it makes more sense > > >to > > > >>not do the deep > > > >> >> > > dives, rather > > > >> >> > > than > > > >> >> > > > > to pay for the He) As for the other > > > >>suggestions on the > > > >> >> > > list regarding > > > >> >> > > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200 > > >foot > > > >>dive...," in > > > >> >> > > Truk, I also DO > > > >> >> > > NOT > > > >> >> > > > > agree with this. This is the exact > > >thing > > > >>we all are > > > >> >> > > trying to get away > > > >> >> > > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK," > > >to > > > >>do these dives > > > >> >> > > without the use > > > >> >> > > of > > > >> >> > > > > Helium. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea > > >and > > > >>those who have > > > >> >> > > put in the time > > > >> >> > > > > and effort to make it work--If you > > >want > > > >>to do it DIR in > > > >> >> > > Truk, you have 3 > > > >> >> > > > > choices: Pay for the gas, stay above > > > >>130, or refer to > > > >> >> > > Rule #1. Most, I > > > >> >> > > > > would think would refer to Rule > > > >>#1........ > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Finally, I would like to point out > > >that > > > >>it is up to us as > > > >> >> > > divers to get > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > point across to these charters....deep > > > >>air is not safe. > > > >> >> > > I hope this > > > >> >> > > post > > > >> >> > > > > has cleared up this mess, and that > > > >>everyone knows where I > > > >> >> > > stand now. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Best, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Mike Strong > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > -- > > > >> >> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing > > >list > > > >>to > > > >> >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >> >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > -- > > > >> >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list > > >to > > > >> >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >> >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > -- > > > >> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list > > >to > > > >>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >>-- > > > >> >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > >>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > > > >> >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or > > > >>later you have to get in the > > > >> >water" > > > >> >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East > > > >>Coast & more > > > >> > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > >> >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or > > >later you have to get in the > > > >water" > > > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East > > >Coast & more > > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >the > > water" > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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