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1 There IS an air migration problem with wings. It is reduced/eliminated
by either not using them underwater at all or clipping the wings down
towards your abdomen so that the volume is restricted, and the air
completely fills the "upper" part of the bladder. This is what happens
with a conventional Stab Jacket.
2 The head down attitude does occur, and that is something you have to get
used to. I did have my 10s as low as possible, but I still ended up
head down. Possibly a conventional weight belt may have helped.
With regards to surface floatation, the Wings wins hands down. My
AP Valves Buddy Commando (medium) has 17kg of lift, and this is less with
it strapped on, and objects stuffed in the pockets. With my 10s, I float
at neck level, even with my suit inflated. In a choppy sea, once my air is
gone, I have to use a snorkel or get out of the stab to survive.
I have been told that I am in the 10% minority who use the BC underwater.
The other 90% of divers only use the Drysuit. I find this mystifying because
if I try to use my neoprene drysuit for buoyancy, I end up like the michelin
man! (I have trimmed my weight down to a minimum of 8kg on a belt, and 1kg on
each ankle). I accept that this may be different for membrane suits.
I have found an optimum solution for me. The 2nd bladder for the Zeagle system
laces directly into my Buddy Commando. Underwater trim is as good as before
and surface floatation is now nearly at nipple level. The price will be
about 137 GBP.
Safe diving.
Bill Dyer
Nuneaton SAC (Saa #220)
Warwickshire, UK.
[118] From: AHDNN1A.DDRAKE01@ed*.co* at Internet 28/2/95 13:59 (856 bytes: 16 ln
)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: NOTE 02/27/95 17:41:00
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
From: ddrake01
Me again. I left out a couple of items. The address I am interested in is for
the fellow who talked about a couple of devices to lengthen the life of
light bulbs.
Also, would you please forward me any private messages you get about the wings
style BC and trim issue. I am looking to buy wings and have not used them, so
I don't know all the issues or resolutions to them. A commercial buddy had
a lead weight made special to mount between his tanks so he never has any on
his belt. I understand it's a pain to take off if he's not dry suit diving!
DAVID DRAKE
36880 ECORSE RD.
ROMULUS, MICHIGAN 48174
(313) 595-5467 OR 8-375-5467
[109] From: rkw@da*.ne* (Richard Wackerbarth) at Internet 28/2/95 12:49 (91
5 bytes: 20 ln)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: Re: Wings style BCs and trim
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
>I recently tried out the Zeagle Wings BC with twin bladders. (I Normally
>dive with an AP Valves Buddy Commando Stab).
>
>I found that 1. The natural attitude was head down making it difficult to see
> where I was going.
> 2. Air migrated from one wing to another, flipping me over.
You adjust head trim by altering the position of the tanks in the bands.
For divers who are accustomed to a "heads-up" position, the proper
horizontal positioning does take a bit of acclimation.
Balancing the air in any "wings" BC does take more effort when you are not
"heads up". :-( Still, I wouldn't consider any other kind.
----
Richard Wackerbarth
rkw@da*.ne*
[101] From: tow@un*.ne*.ac*.uk* (Tom Wylie) at Internet 28/2/95 9:04 (1
002 bytes: 20 ln)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: Re: Wings style BCs and trim
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
I dive with the afore mentioned wing system,
One the problem of migration have a look at the newish OHMs system and the
use os bungy cord. I can adapt my wing to accomidate a similar arangement
However I do cannot share in your problem as I use my suit(membrane) as
the primary form of bouyancy....
Tom.
********************************************************************
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ tow@ua*.nb*.ac*.uk*
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ PROUDMAN OCEANOGRAPHIC LABORATORY
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ BIDSTON,MERSEYSIDE
_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ ENGLAND. L43 7RA
I have to go down to the sea again, to the call of the running tide
Tis a wild call but a clear call, that cannot be denied.
********************************************************************
[99] From: Graeme Davison <graeme_davison@ma*.ne*.co*> at Internet 28/2/95
12:44
(1952 bytes: 49 ln)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: Re: Wings style BCs and trim
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
Subject:RE>Wings style BCs and trim Sent on: 28/2/95 9:05 am
Bill
Did the Zeagles have a small "quick Release" style clips holding the bladders
to the side of the waist band ?
Apparently this is a new modification which hold the bladders forward. I have
single bladders Zeagles which I sometimes use on a single cylinder without
these clips the bladders wrap around the cylinder. I can't say that I have
suffered the same problems whilst underwater as I don't use the wings for
bouyancy then - they only get used on the surface
--------------------------------------
Date: 27/2/95 1:54 pm
To: Graeme Davison
From: DYER, BILL
I recently tried out the Zeagle Wings BC with twin bladders. (I Normally
dive with an AP Valves Buddy Commando Stab).
I found that 1. The natural attitude was head down making it difficult to see
where I was going.
2. Air migrated from one wing to another, flipping me over.
I was using twin 10 litre tanks and the Zeagle weight-in-pockets system.
The best thing about them was the large amount of lift available for surface
floatation. This makes waiting for the boat much more relaxing.
Does anyone have any comments on how I could improve/eliminate these trim
problems?
Bill Dyer
Nuneaton SAC (SAA #220)
Warwickshire, UK.
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Mail Address : graeme_davison@ne*.co*
British Sub Aqua Club : 1958 Under Pressure
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IANTD : Advanced Nitrox
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Dive Safe - Dive Nitrox !
[88] From: IRVINE!ENG1!Alan@be*.at*.co* at Internet 28/2/95 12:36 (1597 byt
es: 37 ln)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: RE: Wings style BCs and trim
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
> I recently tried out the Zeagle Wings BC with twin bladders. (I Normally
> dive with an AP Valves Buddy Commando Stab).
>
> I found that 1. The natural attitude was head down making it difficult to
see
> where I was going.
> 2. Air migrated from one wing to another, flipping me over.
>
> I was using twin 10 litre tanks and the Zeagle weight-in-pockets system.
Bill,
This doesn't address your problem at all. I just found your comments
interesting.
I've been using the Buddy Slimline with double bands to dive with an
unbalanced twinset (15L/12L) and have had absolutely no balance
problems. I had been considering buying wings because of all the
hype about how woderful they are.
In terms of surface floatation. Even with a steel 12L, 15L , 3L and about
12lbs on a weightbelt I can achieve reasonable surface flotation with
the slimline and some help from my drysuit. I weigh about 170lbs and
I normally sink like a stone in a swimming pool.
I think the main reason I haven't found the stab to be a problem is that
I use my drysuit for buoyancy, which means that the stab is empty. So
it doesn't really make any difference underwater.
Once you've gotten feedback, I'd be interested in getting a summary.
Based on your comments I think I'll hold off changing my stab for a
while.
Alan
IRVINE!ENG1!Alan@be*.at*.co*
[83] From: Andrew Cohen <Andrew_Cohen@cc*.ss*.nm*.go*> at Internet 27/2/95 1
3:15 (2801 bytes: 67 ln)
To: BILL DYER at MIRA-MAIN
Subject: Re: Wings style BCs and trim
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Text item 1: Text Item
Bill,
Can If your responses are addressed to you alone, will you please post
them to the group? I've got a similar problem, and I imagine others
do also. Thanks,
Andy
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Wings style BCs and trim
Author: ,"DYER, BILL" <BILL.DYER@mi*.co*.uk*> at ~INTERNET
Date: 95/02/27 9:07
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:07:08
From: "DYER, BILL" <BILL.DYER@mi*.co*.uk*>
Message-Id: <9501277939.AA793904828@mi*.mi*.co*.uk*>
To: techdiver@opal.com
Subject: Wings style BCs and trim
I recently tried out the Zeagle Wings BC with twin bladders. (I Normally
dive with an AP Valves Buddy Commando Stab).
I found that 1. The natural attitude was head down making it difficult to see
where I was going.
2. Air migrated from one wing to another, flipping me over.
I was using twin 10 litre tanks and the Zeagle weight-in-pockets system.
The best thing about them was the large amount of lift available for surface
floatation. This makes waiting for the boat much more relaxing.
Does anyone have any comments on how I could improve/eliminate these trim
problems?
Bill Dyer
Nuneaton SAC (SAA #220)
Warwickshire, UK.
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@opal.com'.
Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@opal.com'.
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