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I know - that is what everyone says - as soon as I have to do something else, these morons start up on me. I can't answer rec scuba level questions on techdiver - these guy don't have the basics with which to understand the answers or to even identify the questions. >George, you are preaching to the choir here. It's funny, every time the list >perceives that you are busy doing something other that reading emails, the >Mouth and Gilliam assholes come slithering out of the woodwork to spout >bullshit. > > Jim > -------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > >> From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:27:52 -0400 >> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> >> Cc: <techdiver@Aquanaut.Com> >> Subject: Re: Re: 80/20 nonsense >> >> Jim, this person ha no idea what I am talking about..He does not realize tha >> the WKPP has logged 15,00 man dive hours of long range deep mixed gas cave >> exploration dives using deompressions we developed with the help fo Hamitlon >> Research and many others professioinals and hve itterated out to a set of >> rules and tables that are unparalled in diving as to the speed of >> decompresion and the effeciveness as measured by vital capacity, blood work, >> doppler, and various subjective measures and then validated long term by >> bone scans and MRI scans. >> >> I am not wasting my time with assholes like this .. They need to go elsewhre >> for information, like some training agency text. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> >> To: <trey@ne*.co*> >> Cc: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>; <techdiver@Aquanaut.Com> >> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:27 AM >> Subject: Re: Re: 80/20 nonsense >> >> >>> George-- who is this asshole? >>>> ---- Original Message --- >>>> From: Guy Morin <xnet@vi*.ca*> >>>> To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> >>>> Cc: techdiver@Aquanaut.Com >>>> Subject: Re: 80/20 nonsense >>>> >>>> Trey wrote: >>>> >>>>> guy, et al, before we go into a discussion that is >>>>> based on false beliefs , hearsay,.unsubstantiated >>>>> methods, >>>> >>>> Funny, I think that's my line. >>>> >>>> >>>>> and other theories that hold no water in >>>>> real life or have any grip on the total physiology >>>>> of decompression at all, why don't we first let you >>>>> tell us what 15,000 man dive hours of decompression >>>> >>>> Are we talking about the famed U.S. Navy tables? >>>> They have a great track record, don't they? Again, >>>> this is just poor marketing Trey. The U.S. Navy >>>> tables exceed this requirement of yours, yet have poor >>>> reception in diving circles, apparently they have >>>> poor statistics from a DCS incidence rate. Being >>>> extensively tested is one thing. You don't happen >>>> to have a URL for the statistics kept by WKPP, do you? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> testing you have done on what were previous >>>>> considered "extreme exposures", how you came to use >>>>> the gases you use from those results,what if any >>>>> decompression diving or experience with others doing >>>>> the diving you have done or participated in and >>>>> that goes for the punk mouth student who brought >>>>> this up), and then what military, commercial and >>>>> other data and experience you are drawing from , >>>>> what Doppler results you got on these tests like >>>>> we use ) >>>> >>>> Congratulations, we've also got a doppler, that was easy. >>>> Fortunately, I don't claim to have such vast experience. >>>> I am concerned with what I practice though, and with >>>> what others have to share. In the end, what I, and most >>>> other divers are left with in the real world are some theoretical >>>> models, and pieces of software that assist us in planning >>>> dives, fexibility really is an asset. Your claim to having >>>> empirical data on decompression really doesn't help >>>> anybody out here. This is just like all those custom tables >>>> used by the oil industry, practically useless to the >>>> decompression diver. "Darn, I don't have the Shell oil >>>> deco schedule, I just have the Chevron." >>>> >>>> When the WKPP, or it's proponents, come up here >>>> and put there stuff up for public display, and tell >>>> folks they should be doing this way, or that way, >>>> it doesn't come as a complete surprise that things >>>> are going to be inspected in detail. >>>> >>>> The whole issue of breaks has never been dealt with. >>>> It's another oversight in the model. Yes, the model is >>>> one thing, and so on. But ask the decompression diver, >>>> whether or not he is diving as per the WKPP method >>>> and if he is using any empirical data from the WKPP, and >>>> the answer, will likely be: No. >>>> >>>>> and then lets talk about what WORKS, and >>>>> what does not. >>>> >>>> Funny, I seem to believe that many possible scenarios >>>> work. Your camp seems to think only one scenario works. >>>> I'm sure you folks are more reasonable than this. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Start there or go on over to the "decompression >>>>> list" where they like to yap and banter in theory . >>>>> People on here want to know what works in real life, >>>>> what will hold up as their dives get bigger and they >>>>> get outside of their dive class ,and what makes the >>>>> most sense for all the right reasons. If you can't >>>>> do that, you can step aside and listen. >>>> >>>> Fine, I'll join the list. >>>> >>>> But tell us Trey, the major reason for the 50/100 decompression >>>> regime is for logistical reasons, isn't it? Cost, time, effort, and >>>> consistency of results. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Guy >>> >> >> > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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