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Phi Le
I have no beef with you, you may find it hard to believe that I actually
care what happens to the people that dive with me, after being on 3 trips
that divers lost their life on, it makes me very cautious with what goes
on during the predive and dive. Ok, so there was 2 questions if you want to
count that last one, the answer is Yes. ;-)
JT
At 01:48 AM 8/15/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:
>JT,
>
>I don't know you nor MHK, and don't care if either of you guys use alu 80.
>The people I dive with don't use alu 80 as stages in the ocean. When I am
>visiting Florida, I use 2 X alu 40 for 50% and O2. At home (Europe or
>Asia), I use 2 X alu 7L. And that's more than enough for down to 300 ft.
>
>Ask George if he uses alu 80 for the ocean dives!
>
>I wasn't stabbing at you. I didn't understand why any Capt or divers (not
>my buddies) would care how I mark my stages or what gas I have in my tanks
>(providing I don't do deep air, etc.). I don't dive with them eventhough
>we go out on the same boat since I would have my buddies. And if they need
>to grab a bottle in case of emergency, the content is marked by tape at
>the tank neck.
>
>So basically, I was only disagreeing with your reasoning for the need to
>add "FT" after the MOD.
>
>That's not some DIR party-lines, JT. It's just common sense! And stop been
>so damn defensive, not everybody is looking to flame other people.
>
>I re-read mine, and there were actually 2 questions :-)
>
>-Phi
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 1:33 AM
>>To: Phi Le
>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>Subject: RE: re vb tech report
>>
>>Phi Le
>> You are correct, after rereading it, I sounded just like "George",
>> forgive my poor taste in words.
>>
>>Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
>>barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to read.
>>Hint: you better go look at some of the photos on my site you will see
>>MHK and Myself using alum 80's and read below the email from
>>George where he directs the NE divers to go look, it is the same thing I
>>posted.
>>BTW, I took your question as a stab at me, reread yours and will see you
>>only ask one real question, the rest was standard DIR answers, statements
>>no questions at all.
>>
>>
>>At 03:15 PM 8/10/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
>>JJ, my opin. is that XXXXXXXXX needs to go to
>>http://www.wkpp.org and read my DIR configuration
>>article under "Equipment" and then explain that to
>>XXXXX and the others. This in cludes our bottle
>>marking scheme which is at the heart of gas diving.
>>
>>We can not have an intelligent discussion until that
>>effort is made, and we can not expect XXXXXXX or
>>anyone else to think that wearing some wing or some
>>bottle on some side means anything without this
>>explanation.
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12:12 AM 8/15/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:
>>>JT,
>>>
>>>First of all, you complaint about George's delivery style and you called
>>>my questions "bullshit" ?
>>>
>>>You claimed to do something better (stage marking) and I was sincerely
>>>interested in finding out. You gave an answer which I felt was probable,
>>>but not worth the trouble to adopt (mark FT after the MOD). So I asked
>>>for clarity and you pulled the "WKPP wannabees"-bullshit.
>>>
>>>Why do you think that anyone want to sniff anyone else's butt ? People
>>>are on this list to exchange information. So if you have nothing to
>>>share, then STFU, stop pretending like you do and waste everybody's
>>>time. I don't have time to trade insults with you.
>>>
>>>Just re-read your posting below and ask somebody to explain DIR to you,
>>>you have no clue of what you are trying to slam.
>>>
>>>Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
>>>barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to read.
>>>
>>>-Phi
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
>>>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 10:13 PM
>>>To: Phi Le
>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>Subject: RE: re vb tech report
>>>Below in BOLD is the section about stages written by George Irvine and
>>>is still on the WKPP org. web site in the equipment section. Since most
>>>NE wreckers have turned their back on techdiver due to GI tactics, the
>>>only source of information they can get without being pounded "WKPP
>>>wanna bees" is this site or others who are doing nothing more than
>>>sniffing GI butt with this same copied info.
>>>Stages should be aluminum 80's.
>>>Right off the bat they can see that GI is off his rocker, he has already
>>>told everyone not to change any of his system, they already know that it
>>>is much easier to carry a 45 steel stage than an eighty on a wreck dive.
>>>Alum 40's are better for wreck dives, easier to manage, but he does not
>>>say that in this on the site.
>>> These swing equally from negative to
>>>positive with air, less negative with gas, by the amount of the air or
>>>gas carried. They are rigged with stainless steel bolt snaps, the size
>>>of which is determined by whether or not your diving requires gloves,
>>>They have already figured this out also, except Brass will do at less
>>>cost, they dive cold water so they knew about the size for the gloves
>>>LONG before he did.
>>>and those are attached by a piece of 1/4" line run under a hose clamp
>>>halfway down the tank and tied to the neck. The upper clip should be
>>>tight to the break of the neck, the lower clip should have plenty of
>>>tail to work with. The bottle needs to be held close in the front and
>>>lose in the back to prevent drag. There should NEVER be any metal to
>>>metal connections of any part of your rig.
>>>This is something they would not know or understand, UNLESS you have
>>>scootered with stages and without.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Stages need to be permanently marked as to their maximum operating
>>>depth in three inch high letters placed horizontally in the orientation
>>>of the tank on either side so that the diver can see what he is
>>>breathing, and so can his buddy, no mater where the tank is. The stage
>>>reg is rigged with a short pressure gauge which is bent back on itself
>>>to face the diver and held in place by bungee cord at the first stage,
>>>The reg hose must be the octopus length. The stage regs are always
>>>parked on the bottle and the bottle turned off unless in use. Stages are
>>>generally worn on the left side for streamlining, and because of the
>>>position and balance of the rest of the gear and the other hoses so as
>>>not to interfere with the operation of any other gear, as well as the
>>>scooter , which is driven with the right hand, favoring the right side.
>>>Is this the best reasons you can write about for marking stages? A lot
>>>of the divers dive SOLO like it or not, so that buddy stuff is a waste
>>>to them.Also don't hold your breath, while your waiting for everyone to
>>>start buddy diving , deal with what their doing now. Breathing correct
>>>gas is good, easy to see what your breathing.
>>>
>>>To deploy a stage, we look for the correct depth marking, we put the
>>>reg around our neck, we then turn on the bottle , put the reg in our
>>>mouth, and if we can breath, we are breathing the correct gas. It is
>>>just that simple. No other convolutions are necessary, and would only add
>>>to the chance for error.
>>>Yes it is very simple, but you need to put it out so they can understand
>>>it and why they should do it.
>>>The 3" marking work very well for our group here, for the very deep
>>>dives I like to have my stages delivered to me, my name and MOD are on
>>>them , it also puts the support diver with me to make sure everything is OK.
>>>Should I need extra gas I need only point to the markings and the
>>>support diver can go to the boat and any bottle will do as they are all
>>>mark with 3"MOD just get one that matches what I need. This can be done
>>>on any dive, if a diver is low on needed gas all he has to do is point
>>>to the MOD and his name, that way we know who is in trouble. Also makes
>>>it is easy for the crew to locate extra gas for him if everyone is
>>>marking their tanks the same way, it is not a CF trying to read those
>>>little bullshit tags that fall off.
>>>Phi Le
>>>I will only answer one of those bullshit questions below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 04:07 PM 8/14/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:
>>>>JT,
>>>>
>>>>So you feel there is an issue that people might be mistaken for a stage
>>>>marked for 60 ft as EAN60. That's a possibility...
>>>>
>>>>But why would the Capt and other divers be worrying about *my* stages ?
>>>BECAUSE WE CARE!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Obviously I will be diving with my buddies who would know what the
>>>>markings
>>>>mean. The stage(s) will be with me u/w so no one will breath it without my
>>>>knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>If someone wants to use them in case of an emergency on the boat, the
>>>>oxygen
>>>>deco stage is clearly marked "Oxygen" and the rest has the content
>>>>analysis
>>>>tape at the neck.
>>>>
>>>>Am I still missing something ?
>>>>
>>>>-Phi
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
>>>>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:32 PM
>>>>To: Phi Le
>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>Subject: RE: re vb tech report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is no better system than what the WKPP use at this time, but as a
>>>>Capt and diver on boats that carry numerous divers on trips who have no
>>>>idea what the markings mean, I have added FT(= feet) to my stages so there
>>>>is no confusion on their part.
>>>>If one does not like the FT he can simply cover it up with the rubber
>>>>intertube as JJ did to my tanks he used when they were here.
>>>>
>>>>I will make a detailed list of why making stages in the 3" MOD works
>>>>for us
>>>>here and why NE wreck divers should follow suit in a later post.
>>>>
>>>> At 01:44 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:
>>>> >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
>>>> ><snip>
>>>> >The 2 big things we do not agree on are:
>>>> > >2) Reasons why you mark stages...
>>>> ><snip>
>>>> >
>>>> >JT,
>>>> >
>>>> >Why do you disagree with it ?
>>>> >
>>>> >And since you are marking stages differently, you must feel that your
>>>> way
>>>>is
>>>> >better. Could you elaborate on your *better* system ?
>>>> >
>>>> >-Phi
>>
>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
>>the water"
>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>Email captjt@mi*.co*
>
>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
>the water"
>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
>Email captjt@mi*.co*
>
--=====================_27234373==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
Phi Le<br>
I have no beef with you, you may find it hard to believe that I actually
care what happens to the people that dive with me, after being on 3 trips
that divers lost their life on, it makes me very cautious with what
goes on during the predive and dive. Ok, so there was 2 questions if you
want to count that last one, the answer is Yes. ;-)<br>
<br>
JT<br>
<br>
At 01:48 AM 8/15/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF"><blockquote type=cite
cite>JT,</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I don't know you nor MHK, and
don't care if either of you guys use alu 80. The people I dive with don't
use alu 80 as stages in the ocean. When I am visiting Florida, I use 2 X
alu 40 for 50% and O2. At home (Europe or Asia), I use 2 X alu 7L. And
that's more than enough for down to 300 ft.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Ask George if he uses alu 80
for the ocean dives!</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I wasn't stabbing at you. I
didn't understand why any Capt or divers (not my buddies) would care how
I mark my stages or what gas I have in my tanks (providing I don't do
deep air, etc.). I don't dive with them eventhough we go out on the same
boat since I would have my buddies. And if they need to grab a bottle in
case of emergency, the content is marked by tape at the tank
neck.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">So basically, I was only
disagreeing with your reasoning for the need to add "FT" after
the MOD.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">That's not some DIR
party-lines, JT. It's just common sense! And stop been so damn defensive,
not everybody is looking to flame other people.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I re-read mine, and there were
actually 2 questions :-)</font><br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2
color="#0000FF">-Phi</font><blockquote><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> Capt JT
[<a href="mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"
eudora="autourl">mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</a>]
<dd>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2000 1:33 AM
<dd>To:</b> Phi Le
<dd>Cc:</b> techdiver@aquanaut.com
<dd>Subject:</b> RE: re vb tech report<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>Phi Le
<dd> You are correct, after rereading it, I sounded just like
"George", forgive my poor taste in words.<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to
read.</font>
<dd>Hint: you better go look at some of the photos on my site you will
see MHK and Myself using alum 80's and read below the email from
George where he directs the NE divers to go look, it is the same
thing I posted.
<dd>BTW, I took your question as a stab at me, reread yours and will see
you only ask one real question, the rest was standard DIR answers,
statements no questions at all.
<dd> <br>
<br>
<dd>At 03:15 PM 8/10/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
<dd>JJ, my opin. is that XXXXXXXXX needs to go to<font color="#0000FF">
<dd><a href="http://www.wkpp.org/"
eudora="autourl">http://www.wkpp.org</a></font></u>
and read my DIR configuration
<dd>article under "Equipment" and then explain that to
<dd>XXXXX and the others. This in cludes our bottle
<dd>marking scheme which is at the heart of gas diving.<br>
<br>
<dd>We can not have an intelligent discussion until that
<dd>effort is made, and we can not expect XXXXXXX or
<dd>anyone else to think that wearing some wing or some
<dd>bottle on some side means anything without this
<dd>explanation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<dd> At 12:12 AM 8/15/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:<font face="arial"
size=2 color="#0000FF"><blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>JT,</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>First of all, you complaint about George's delivery style and you called
my questions "bullshit" ? </font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>You claimed to do something better (stage marking) and I was sincerely
interested in finding out. You gave an answer which I felt was probable, but
not worth the trouble to adopt (mark FT after the MOD). So I asked for clarity
and you pulled the "WKPP wannabees"-bullshit.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Why do you think that anyone want to sniff anyone else's butt ? People
are on this list to exchange information. So if you have nothing to share, then
STFU, stop pretending like you do and waste everybody's time. I don't have time
to trade insults with you.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Just re-read your posting below and ask somebody to explain DIR to you,
you have no clue of what you are trying to slam.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to
read.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>-Phi</font>
<dd> <font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dd> -----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
<dd>Sent:</b> Monday, August 14, 2000 10:13 PM
<dd>To:</b> Phi Le
<dd>Cc:</b> techdiver@aquanaut.com
<dd>Subject:</b> RE: re vb tech report</font>
<dd>Below in BOLD is the section about stages written by George Irvine and
is still on the WKPP org. web site in the equipment section. Since most NE
wreckers have turned their back on techdiver due to GI tactics, the only source
of information they can get without being pounded "WKPP wanna bees"
is this site or others who are doing nothing more than sniffing GI butt with
this same copied info.<font face="Arial Black, Helvetica">
<dd>Stages should be aluminum 80's.</font>
<dd>Right off the bat they can see that GI is off his rocker, he has already
told everyone not to change any of his system, they already know that it is
much easier to carry a 45 steel stage than an eighty on a wreck dive. Alum 40's
are better for wreck dives, easier to manage, but he does not say that in this
on the site.<font face="Arial Black, Helvetica">
<dd> These swing equally from negative to
<dd>positive with air, less negative with gas, by the amount of the air or
<dd>gas carried. They are rigged with stainless steel bolt snaps, the size
<dd>of which is determined by whether or not your diving requires
gloves,</font>
<dd>They have already figured this out also, except Brass will do at less
cost, they dive cold water so they knew about the size for the gloves LONG
before he did. <font face="Arial Black, Helvetica">
<dd>and those are attached by a piece of 1/4" line run under a hose
clamp
<dd>halfway down the tank and tied to the neck. The upper clip should be
<dd>tight to the break of the neck, the lower clip should have plenty of
<dd>tail to work with. The bottle needs to be held close in the front and
<dd>lose in the back to prevent drag. There should NEVER be any metal to
<dd>metal connections of any part of your rig.</font>
<dd>This is something they would not know or understand, UNLESS you have
scootered with stages and without.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Arial Black, Helvetica">
<dd>Stages need to be permanently marked as to their maximum operating
<dd>depth in three inch high letters placed horizontally in the orientation
<dd>of the tank on either side so that the diver can see what he is
<dd>breathing, and so can his buddy, no mater where the tank is. The stage
<dd>reg is rigged with a short pressure gauge which is bent back on itself
<dd>to face the diver and held in place by bungee cord at the first stage,
<dd>The reg hose must be the octopus length. The stage regs are always
<dd>parked on the bottle and the bottle turned off unless in use. Stages are
<dd>generally worn on the left side for streamlining, and because of the
<dd>position and balance of the rest of the gear and the other hoses so as
<dd>not to interfere with the operation of any other gear, as well as the
<dd>scooter , which is driven with the right hand, favoring the right
side.</font>
<dd>Is this the best reasons you can write about for marking stages? A lot
of the divers dive SOLO like it or not, so that buddy stuff is a waste to
them.Also don't hold your breath, while your waiting for everyone to start
buddy diving , deal with what their doing now. Breathing correct gas is
good, easy to see what your breathing.<br>
<br>
<font face="Arial Black, Helvetica">
<dd>To deploy a stage, we look for the correct depth marking, we put the
<dd>reg around our neck, we then turn on the bottle , put the reg in our
<dd>mouth, and if we can breath, we are breathing the correct gas. It is
<dd>just that simple. No other convolutions are necessary, and would only
add
<dd>to the chance for error. </font>
<dd>Yes it is very simple, but you need to put it out so they can understand
it and why they should do it.
<dd>The 3" marking work very well for our group here, for the very deep
dives I like to have my stages delivered to me, my name and MOD are on them ,
it also puts the support diver with me to make sure everything is OK.
<dd>Should I need extra gas I need only point to the markings and the
support diver can go to the boat and any bottle will do as they are all mark
with 3"MOD just get one that matches what I need. This can be done on any
dive, if a diver is low on needed gas all he has to do is point to the MOD and
his name, that way we know who is in trouble. Also makes it is easy for the
crew to locate extra gas for him if everyone is marking their tanks the same
way, it is not a CF trying to read those little bullshit tags that fall off.
<dd>Phi Le
<dd>I will only answer one of those bullshit questions below.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<dd>At 04:07 PM 8/14/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote: <blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>JT,<br>
<br>
<dd>So you feel there is an issue that people might be mistaken for a stage
<dd>marked for 60 ft as EAN60. That's a possibility...<br>
<br>
<dd>But why would the Capt and other divers be worrying about *my* stages
?</blockquote>
<dd>BECAUSE WE CARE!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>Obviously I will be diving with my buddies who would know what the
markings
<dd>mean. The stage(s) will be with me u/w so no one will breath it without
my
<dd>knowledge.<br>
<br>
<dd>If someone wants to use them in case of an emergency on the boat, the
oxygen
<dd>deco stage is clearly marked "Oxygen" and the rest has the
content analysis
<dd>tape at the neck.<br>
<br>
<dd>Am I still missing something ?<br>
<br>
<dd>-Phi<br>
<br>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From: Capt JT [<a href="mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"
eudora="autourl">mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</a>]
<dd>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:32 PM
<dd>To: Phi Le
<dd>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
<dd>Subject: RE: re vb tech report<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<dd>There is no better system than what the WKPP use at this time, but as a
<dd>Capt and diver on boats that carry numerous divers on trips who have no
<dd>idea what the markings mean, I have added FT(= feet) to my stages so
there
<dd>is no confusion on their part.
<dd>If one does not like the FT he can simply cover it up with the rubber
<dd>intertube as JJ did to my tanks he used when they were here.<br>
<br>
<dd>I will make a detailed list of why making stages in the 3" MOD
works for us
<dd>here and why NE wreck divers should follow suit in a later
post.<br>
<br>
<dd> At 01:44 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:
<dd>>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
<dd>><snip>
<dd>>The 2 big things we do not agree on are:
<dd>> >2) Reasons why you mark stages...
<dd>><snip>
<dd>>
<dd>>JT,
<dd>>
<dd>>Why do you disagree with it ?
<dd>>
<dd>>And since you are marking stages differently, you must feel that
your way
<dd>is
<dd>>better. Could you elaborate on your *better* system ?
<dd>>
<dd>>-Phi</blockquote>
</dl></blockquote><br>
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the water"<br>
<font color="#0000FF">Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast
& more<br>
Web Site <a href="http://www.capt-jt.com/"
eudora="autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br>
Email captjt@mi*.co*<br>
</font></u></blockquote><br>
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the water"<br>
<font color="#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East
Coast & more<br>
Web Site <a href="http://www.capt-jt.com/"
eudora="autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br>
Email captjt@mi*.co*<br>
<br>
</font></u></html>
--=====================_27234373==_.ALT--
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