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Trey, What has your experience been with individuals with scar tissue, notably scar tissue across bone, muscle and tendon/ligament areas? are you finding that divers with these preconditions bend easier? can they tolerate the deco or do they have problems? Is there any difference if the scars are sports injuries or surgical in nature? feel free to reply privately and in confidence if you feel the need too. The lists dont know this, but ill own up to it-Trey and I talked about it in Virginia Beach. I had some work done on my right hand and on my back before I got into diving to correct some things that were well accidents of genetics and a misspent youth basicly. I never considered it until i was fairly well along in diving< thank you PADI>, and had looked the elephant squarely in the eye and decided i liked it too much to give it up. I have not had it affect my diving in any way that i have observed or recognized but I am still understandably curious. And not to get off topic, but I think this basically marks me as a stroke for life, but i can deal with that. rgds, Al Marvelli Trey wrote: > The lack of fitness weeds the divers out - I do not > need to do it. Of our fatalities, one was a cave in, > one was out of shape and using drugs and alcohol, and > violating my current rules for stage bottles, one was > diving deep air and was left by his "buddy". That was > before I ran the project. > > Being in shape is more of a being able to put it all > together and do the big stuff easily thing - it will > not keep you alive if you are screwing up otherwise. > > A great comparison is to look at the rejects Stone > used in his project - always sick, bent, tired, cold > miserable and taking days and days to recover from > bullshit dives in a chamber, vs my cave stallions who > can do two dives in one day bigger than anything done > in the Stone project and be at dinner that night > feeling perfect, and then dive the next day. > > On the last record dive JJ and I did, two weeks ago, > we went 19,000 feet each way at 300, and I was out of > the water in time to have dinner with my son up at > Florida State University. All conditioning there. > > >George, > > > >Thanks for the response. I know you have bounced > people from dive sites for > >having stroke gear etc... but I wondered what you did > if someone didn't show > >the same commitment to taking care of themselves on a > regular basis. > > > >I noticed you do rip people new ones for diving > stroke gear but the one > >thing I never see mentioned on a lot of these posts > about fatalities is "Was > >the person in shape?" > > > >I would think that would rank right up there with > "Was he diving stroke > >gear?" but I dont ever see the fitness question > addressed when people post > >about a fatality. > > > >Todd > > > > > >>From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) > >>To: "Todd Baldi" <todd_baldi@ho*.co*>, > <scottk@hc*.co*>, > >><mhkane@pr*.ne*> > >>CC: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, <cavers@ca*.co*> > >>Subject: Most Important Piece fo Equipment wasRe: > Series of recent deaths > >>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:36:35 -0400 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Todd, I do not "require" any workout regimen out of > my > >>divers, I merely lead by example. It is pretty > >>embarrasing when 48 yer old guy can severely out > gun > >>the 20-30 year old's in every measure of athletic > >>performance, stamina , strength fitness and look. I > do > >>not have to do anything but take my shirt off to get > >>that point across, and remind them who never gets > >>cold, tired , injured or bent. They take it from > >>there. > >> > >>Obviously,JJ and my top guns are in the same > category > >>as me. While other than JJ they are not all around > >>tops in every category, they all do what they do > very > >>seriously. Many are marathon runners, Iron Man > >>triatheletes, sprint triatheletes, Masters swimmers, > >>or cyclists. > >> > >>My main message and example is show up every day and > >>do something, no matter what, and that is what I > have > >>done for my whole life, with even more intensity the > >>last ten years. Besides being the key to fitness, it > >>is the key to longevity and quality of life and > health > >>in every regard. > >> > >>I have no aches or pains, no problem doing anyting , > >>no problem running or lifting weights with my 19 > year > >>old son, no problem doing the Iron Man, etc. I can > >>still bench press more than twice my weight and run > a > >>sub 11 second 100 yds. or do any distance swimning, > >>running or on the bike. > >> > >>I guess you could say I effectively "require" > fitness > >>since to do the dives I ask thes guys to do, it is > >>essential. Diving and especaily diving in the WKPP > >>seems to get people thinking fitness in every way. > >>Most no longer drink, obviously do not smoke, smoke > >>pot or use drugs, and most take fitness and health > >>very seriously. > >> > >>Some of the girls on the team are the same: Dawn > >>Kernagis can kick some ass on a bike or a swim, and > >>Pina can run like a rocket forever. It really shows > on > >>the dopler tests. > >> > >> >George, > >> > > >> >I read a lot on the list and the WKPP website > >>regarding gear configuration > >> >but I rarely see any mention of the most important > >>piece of equipment, your > >> >body. > >> > > >> >I am familiar with your workout regimine through > >>private emails and some > >> >discussion on the list. Could you please give a > >>rundown on what the other > >> >WKPP divers do to maintain their shape. Is there > >>some set workout rountine > >> >that you require for WKPP divers? Plus what > training, > >>other than what is > >> >listed on your forms do you require your divers to > go > >>through? > >> > > >> >Thanks, > >> >Todd > >> > > >> >>From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) > >> >>To: "Scott" <scottk@hc*.co*>, "MHK" > >><mhkane@pr*.ne*> > >> >>CC: "List - Technical Diver" > >><techdiver@aquanaut.com>, <cavers@ca*.co*> > >> >>Subject: Re: Series of recent deaths > >> >>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:22:22 -0400 > >> >> > >> >>go to http://www.wkpp.org and then "Equipment" > and > >> >>then the DIR gear config article - it is all > there. > >> >> > >> >>The direct url is > >> >>http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/newgeorge.html > >> >> > >> >>Try to understand it in its entirety. > >> >> > >> >>-----Original Message----- > >> >>From: Scott <scottk@hc*.co*> > >> >>To: George Irvine <trey@ne*.co*>; MHK > >> >><mhkane@pr*.ne*> > >> >>Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000 3:01 PM > >> >>Subject: Fw: Series of recent deaths > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >From: "Scott" <scottk@hc*.re*.co*> > >> >> >Newsgroups: rec.scuba > >> >> >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:00 PM > >> >> >Subject: Re: Series of recent deaths > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Its going to get worse before it gets better. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The more people die, the louder We bitch, and > >>the > >> >>harder they argue and > >> >> >look > >> >> >> elsewhere for a place to put the blame. > >>Disclaimers > >> >>keep you out of court, > >> >> >> but > >> >> >> court isn't the only authority people are > going > >>to > >> >>have to answer to. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I am almost pissed off at Maffatone. What a > >>waste. > >> >>Everyone said shit like > >> >> >> "Oh, he died doing what he loved." Fuck that > >> >>bullshit. He died > >> >> >> traumatically, scared and alone. There was > >>nothing > >> >>glamorous about his > >> >> >> death. He drowned. Its was simply a fucking > >>waste > >> >>of a good man, and a > >> >> >> veteran. He was not only a feather in the cap > of > >> >>his friends, he was a > >> >> >> feather in the cap of our country. As long as > >> >>people accept a *needless* > >> >> >> death like this, and justify it because he > was > >> >>"doing what he loved", more > >> >> >> are doomed to follow. Its all in the mindset, > >> >>people. I didn't know the > >> >> >man, > >> >> >> and imagine it would be quite a privilege to > >>have > >> >>made his acquaintance. > >> >> >> Those of you who did know him, will miss him. > >>Those > >> >>of us who didn't know > >> >> >> him are glad we don't have the pain you do. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> And for what? I cant really find any good > lesson > >> >>from this mans death. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> People who get pissed about the list "Reasons > >>for > >> >>you strokes to shut the > >> >> >> fuck up and listen", will have to get used to > >>the > >> >>idea of the existence of > >> >> >> the list, because it is growing > exponentially. > >>Its > >> >>continued growth is fed > >> >> >> by greed, ego, stupid pride, and politeness. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Scott > >> >> >> > >> >> >> "MHK" <mhkane@PR*.NE*> wrote in message > >> >> >> > >> > >>news:8mup78$26n4$1@ne*.ne*.pr*.co*... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Given that there have been a series of > recent > >> >>tragedies, I hope everyone > >> >> >> > will take an extra minute or so prior to > there > >> >>next dive and take a look > >> >> >> at > >> >> >> > there diving.. Hopefully you'll ask > yourself, > >>is > >> >>there anything I can > >> >> >do > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> > make this dive safer. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > It seems, based upon the accounts that I > have > >> >>reviewed, that most of > >> >> >these > >> >> >> > deaths were some experienced divers. > >>Complacency > >> >>kills, and I know we > >> >> >> like > >> >> >> > to have a bunch of fun on this NG and beat > >>each > >> >>other up now and again. > >> >> >> But > >> >> >> > no matter what side of the DIR coin you > side > >>on, > >> >>please take a fresh > >> >> >look > >> >> >> at > >> >> >> > your diving and try to remain safe.. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The only remaining contribution these > diver's > >>can > >> >>leave us with is that > >> >> >we > >> >> >> > can look at there mistakes and learn from > >>them. > >> >>Death is an unfortunate > >> >> >> > byproduct of our sport and should be looked > at > >>as > >> >>a learning tool. What > >> >> >> can > >> >> >> > be learned, and how can we avoid it from > >> >>happening again.. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > My condoleseces to all the families that > have > >> >>suffered, may they rest in > >> >> >> > peace.. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Stay safe.... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>-- > >> >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > >> > >_____________________________________________________ > >>___________________ > >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >>http://www.hotmail.com > >> > > >> > > > >_____________________________________________________ > ___________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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